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High-tech Cars Replacing Driver Skill?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Del Lardo, 12 Jan 2006.

  1. Del Lardo

    Wise Guy

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    Location: Cambridge(ish)

  2. gord

    Capodecina

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    If the system is better at doing its job than a person would be.. why not let it take over. I mean, i dont want to have to pump my brakes in an accident, i dont think id have the reaction time to, so id be glad for my ABS.

    The test saw people handle their newer cars perfectly in all conditions. Yet the question seems to imply a problem with replacing driver skill. I see no problem with improving systems aiding safety.

    Maybe they should change their title "High-tech Cars Make Driving Safer?"
     
  3. Lashout_UK

    Capodecina

    Joined: 2 Mar 2004

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    Location: SE England

    Since the introduction of electronic driver aids such as ABS, ASR and the like driver skill has been reduced, but in the quest for saving lives and "what's right for us!".

    In some respects, I'm glad I drive cars that have no electronic interferece between my inputs and the road!

    Amatuer! :D :p
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2006
  4. Mr_Sukebe

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 23 Dec 2002

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    Location: London

    The real question is whether or not we will really be safer. Will this simply result in more complacency in drivers who become more reliant on their safer cars.
    Worse still, what happens when you then give the skill-less driver the opportunity to try something that requires smoothness, the ability to balance a car, chances are they'll stick it in a ditch.
     
  5. merlin

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    This is simply a test of how much better modern cars handle and grip and a display of unfamiliarity with the vehicle. Nothing to do with skill.

    So what? Let them I say - makes the road safer for me.

    Left behind? Not sure what the inference is there tbh. We move with technology. Our ancestors knew how to light fires with twigs - nowadays we use matches. Damn dont you feel "unskilled"? I know I do, I worry about being caught in the jungle with no matches every day.

    In in all - if I had the choice of the roads being full of old cars with no TC ABS etc etc but people knew how to cadence brake - or the roads as they are now - full of cars with electronics and people who can't cadence brake - I know which one I think is safe and it doesn't involve 15 year old BMW's.
     
  6. Simon

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    Classic :D
     
  7. cleanbluesky

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    Are you suggesting that comfort and convenience = progress? Or maybe just opulence?
     
  8. merlin

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    Yes. The underpinings of almost everything we do is to make life easier, safer, more comfortable and more convenient for ourselves.

    I'd call that progress. Put it like this - I'd call removing comfort/aids/convenience the opposite of progress.
     
  9. ajgoodfellow

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    Location: Shirley, Solihull, UK

    I can see this

    Having been with a housemate in his new Cilo 182 I thought we'd end up spinning off the roundabout/in a ditch/etc on a fair few occasions when he did something stupid.

    When he first did it I braced and he asked why - I told him that if he did that in my 7 year old Astra (with no safety features) we would have crashed

    EDIT: Not saying that I'm no better - in fact I did manage to crash my Astra. I'm just saying that people become very reliant on them and it only serves to increase their confidence and to think that they are better drivers then they really are
     
  10. Dolph

    Man of Honour

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    There is a problem when people rely on these systems too much. The systems themselves are not the problem, reliance on them is.

    If I cut my ABS in, it's because I've screwed up my anticipation and over-braked, or misread the road. likewise if I'm in a car with TC and that cuts in (assuming a reasonably setup system) it's because I'm doing things wrong.

    The problem is not the driver aids themselves, it's people's attitudes towards them. They should be a safety net, not a compensation for lack of skill or observation.

    -Dolph
     
  11. The_Dark_Side

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    has anyone started taking bets on how many posts of the "driving aids interfere between me and my machine" type that this thread will attract?
     
  12. W!ll

    Wise Guy

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    I want to have a go :(.
     
  13. Simon

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    Or hit something you didn't expect
     
  14. Dolph

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    tbh that mainly comes under misreading the road. When on the road you should only drive to your observation distance, and braking distance. If you can't see far enough ahead to be able to react/stop in time, then it can be said you're going too fast. That includes most hazards as most (eg a car pulling out of a junction) are easy to anticipate and expect if you're paying attention and driving appropriately.

    If you don't expect a potential hazard, it's normally down to poor observation or not adjusting your speed to allow you adequate observation/reaction time.

    There are a few exceptions (last one I had was someone came running out of the front door of a house (in Laira narrows for anyone who knows plymouth) and ran across the road without looking or breaking stride, but these are very rare.
     
  15. rare

    Soldato

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    I love how none of them can drive an E30. A lot of people just don’t have a clue of the basic principles of driving now, which is quite worrying.
     
  16. Dolph

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    These kinds of posts do have some validity though, although it depends on the car and the driver. I'm one of them myself. On many cars, traction control, and especially ESP do take away quite a bit of driver interaction and communication. They also mean the car doesn't necessarily act 'conventionally' when pushed, as systems such as ESP can act in a way a driver can't (for example, braking individual wheels, or braking them at different rates) which alter the way the car behaves.

    I'm not a huge fan of the current trend of fixing traction control and esp to absolutely everything that has wheels, a 1.4 fiesta doesn't need traction control, nor for that matter does a Clio 182. It's simply a case of remembering the throttle is analogue, not digital.

    The other problem with these kinds of systems is that if you do overcook it properly, they can't overcome physics, but because they hide some of the communcation, it's harder to work out.

    That doesn't mean they shouldn't be fitted to cars that need them, but a better standard of driver education would do much more.
     
  17. Bear

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    It may well be but look at the Elise, ITR, Mx5 etc much more fun to drive without all the extra stuff. I guess its down to what people want out of a car and what you are willing to compromise on. The opposite of progress like you listed above isnt all bad. ;)
     
  18. merlin

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    Hell yeah, no aids is where the fun is at, no doubt about it.

    Fortunately the majority of motorists dont want these sort of cars though, hey want something nice and safe - with lots of gizmo's - that's suits me down to the ground. Feed the masses as much electronic wizzardry as possible I say - less chance of them putting me in Hospital. :D
     
  19. NickXX

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    ABS/ECS/TCS, etc. have all kept me out of trouble in the past. Load them all on - a computer can react quicker than me and will likely react better. For road driving, this is exactly how it should be.

    I don't think I'll ever buy a car without ECS/ASR ever again.
     
  20. The_Dark_Side

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    couldn't agree more.