How to be sure my car hasn't been mapped

MassiveJim · 27 Sep 2020 at 17:35

My previous car was a Mondeo ST220
220BHP / 207 lb-ft

I now own an octavia VRS mk3
220 BHP / 258 lb-ft

As far as I know my car was standard when I bought it, it definitely feels quite a bit faster than the Mondeo. I was surprised when I test drove it how much more powerful it felt. I have it booked in for a stage 2 remap in about 6 weeks.

My brother has a 1.8TFSI Audi a3 (2013), I drove it when he first got it (well before I had the octavia) and havcen't been in it until he got it remapped 2 days ago.
His dyno print out shows
220bhp / 275 lb-ft.

Yet when I drive it comparing it to mine it doesn't feel anywhere like as fast. we haven't raced them to do a direct comparison but it does feel quite a bit less powerful than mine despite the dyno printout suggesting he has more torque. Both cars have DSG and my brother had his remapped at the same time as the engine map.

Factors that could be affecting my car, I run on super unleaded he does not, I have an upgraded intake (turbo inlet elbow and pipe with a K&N filter) but I don't think this would affect the performance of mine to this degree.

I saw his dyno printouts and his after showed the initial torque go up very steeply and hits its peak at a lower RPM, I have never tried to understand a torque graph before but this suggest to me that when driving it there should be a real kick to it.

and its got me wondering if mine could have been remapped by the previous owner.
Apart from dyno'ing it in a few weeks before the remap is there anyway that I would be able to tell ?
I have VCDS at my disposal if that can tell me somehow.

cuke2u · 27 Sep 2020 at 17:48

50ftlbs of extra torque, equating to 68Nm, will make it faster than your mondeo. Gearing might be different with the A3..

MassiveJim · 27 Sep 2020 at 17:52

cuke2u said:
50ftlbs of extra torque, equating to 68Nm, will make it faster than your mondeo. Gearing might be different with the A3..

Mine is 6 speed his is 7 so if anything this should work in his favour (At least to me it does) in making his the faster car.

jsmoke · 27 Sep 2020 at 18:03

Yeh just purchase a scan tool that can read every setting and print them out, it should be as simple as that.

I've seen scan tools for a MK3 octavia for as little as £10 that claim they can do everything including key programming.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-K-CA...141049?hash=item446230cb39:g:v04AAOSwNhNdym12

Nasher · 27 Sep 2020 at 18:06

cuke2u said:
50ftlbs of extra torque, equating to 68Nm, will make it faster than your mondeo. Gearing might be different with the A3..

Depends on the weight of the cars.

Anyway, a dealer would probably be able to tell. Or they could just reflash it back to stock.

xs2man · 27 Sep 2020 at 18:21

jsmoke said:
Yeh just purchase a scan tool that can read every setting and print them out, it should be as simple as that.

I've seen scan tools for a MK3 octavia for as little as £10 that claim they can do everything including key programming.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-K-CA...141049?hash=item446230cb39:g:v04AAOSwNhNdym12

He has VCDS, so has access to FAR more information than some cheap generic scan tool.

cuke2u · 27 Sep 2020 at 18:38

Do yourself a favour and don't buy a cheap programming tool, either OBB11 or VCDS..

jsmoke · 27 Sep 2020 at 18:48

xs2man said:
He has VCDS, so has access to FAR more information than some cheap generic scan tool.

So what's the issue?

xs2man · 27 Sep 2020 at 18:51

jsmoke said:
So what's the issue?

So you suggested he buy a cheap scan tool whe he already has the best tool for the job?

jsmoke · 27 Sep 2020 at 19:06

xs2man said:
So you suggested he buy a cheap scan tool whe he already has the best tool for the job?

Yeh but what's the issue with the solution to problem can't he just download the cars settings and compare them after the remap?

Kenai · 27 Sep 2020 at 19:09

I don't think VCDS has an obvious 'REMAP YES/NO' flag, easiest thing to do would be to log boost pressures or something as this would be obviously different to a standard car.

Probably easiest to just see what it delivers on the first dyno run.

MassiveJim · 27 Sep 2020 at 19:15

Kenai said:
I don't think VCDS has an obvious 'REMAP YES/NO' flag, easiest thing to do would be to log boost pressures or something as this would be obviously different to a standard car.

Probably easiest to just see what it delivers on the first dyno run.

Yeh I figured as much.
And obvs the 1st dyo run would tell me. I could potentially cancel the remap though if I knew it was already mapped, I don't think it is but would be majorly disappointed if it is (looking forward to the extra ponies)
I was also interested why my brothers car felt so "flat" in comparison.

Finglonga · 27 Sep 2020 at 19:34

No friendly dealer that can scan it for the SD1 for you?

Dangerous Dave · 27 Sep 2020 at 19:53

Use VCDS to log the boost pressure and graph it on a pull in 3rd or 4th gear. A quick Goggle says stock boost pressure is around 17psi. Remapped will be around 25-28psi

Iamzod · 27 Sep 2020 at 20:07

The difference here is more likely that the power in the VRS is easier to use with it being a Turbocharged unit. You have to rev the b******s off the ST220 to get the go out of it, but it does go well so long as you keep it above 4.5k RPM.

To put it into perspective, jump out of an ST220 straight into a TDCi 130 & it feels like it pulls harder, the 220 of course leaves it for dead. The TDCi 130 however pulls from about 1500RPM.

MassiveJim · 28 Sep 2020 at 00:42

Iamzod said:
The difference here is more likely that the power in the VRS is easier to use with it being a Turbocharged unit. You have to rev the b******s off the ST220 to get the go out of it, but it does go well so long as you keep it above 4.5k RPM.

To put it into perspective, jump out of an ST220 straight into a TDCi 130 & it feels like it pulls harder, the 220 of course leaves it for dead. The TDCi 130 however pulls from about 1500RPM.

I'm comparing it to my brothers remapped a3 though which supposedly has more torque.

Dangerous Dave said:
Use VCDS to log the boost pressure and graph it on a pull in 3rd or 4th gear. A quick Goggle says stock boost pressure is around 17psi. Remapped will be around 25-28psi

Thanks for the info. I'll give this a go

Django x2 · 28 Sep 2020 at 09:46

MassiveJim said:
Mine is 6 speed his is 7 so if anything this should work in his favour (At least to me it does) in making his the faster car.

No, at least not always the case. In the old days, 4 speed boxes would have a taller 1st and 2nd gear meaning they'd get to 60 without an extra change if we're talking acceleration. From a "top speed" perspective, you'd be surprised to find the gearing is probably very similar. A 7th / 8th gear these days is just to satisfy EU noise and carbon regulations

Diagro · 28 Sep 2020 at 19:41

Stage 2 map... Wtf is a stage 2 map

Doobedoo · 28 Sep 2020 at 19:55

Remap with supporting mods such as fmic, air filter, exhaust etc.

Kenai · 28 Sep 2020 at 20:18

Diagro said:
Stage 2 map... Wtf is a stage 2 map

On a VAG car, a map to support the addition of bolt ons, typically a turbo back exhaust with sports cat (or decat), intake system and an upgraded intercooler. On a 220bhp vRS, that should see it to 325-350bhp ish.