Poll: Hungarian Grand Prix 2020, Budapest - Race 3/?

[GravyMonster]

The whole 'not out of your pitbox when you jump the start so it's ok' rule is BS. It was BS when Vettel got away with it, and I'm pretty sure someone else has done it too in the last couple of years, and now Bottas has. It's stupid.

Also it now raises the question, where is the line drawn? What's to stop a driver parking it at the back of the yellow indicator line on the grid slot and trying to jump the gun so that they're still in the box but moving when the lights go out?

Did the car move before the lights went out? -> Penalty. IDGAF if you're still 'in the box', you jumped the start. It doesn't need sensors, or some overly complicated system to judge it. We have eyes. We can see it move. I don't care that he stopped again. Just because someone tries to commit murder but only wounds their target doesn't mean they don't get punished. Similarly, if someone tries to commit murder and stabs themselves doesn't mean they don't get punished. If you jump the start and drop X places that's your own stupid fault. Serve your penalty.

It's the same deal as Latifi had; he was released unsafely and got a puncture which lost him a lap. Then he got a penalty on top because of the unsafe release. The attitude of 'they did something dodgy but lost time anyway' is wrong. Rules are rules.

Rant over. Yes I do feel better.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

The whole 'not out of your pitbox when you jump the start so it's ok' rule is BS. It was BS when Vettel got away with it, and I'm pretty sure someone else has too in the last couple of years, and now Bottas has too. It's stupid. Did the car move before the lights went out? -> Penalty. IDGAF if you're still 'in the box', you jumped the start. It doesn't need sensors, or some overly complicated system to judge it. We have eyes. We can see it move. I don't care that he stopped again. Just because someone tries to commit murder but only wounds their target doesn't mean they don't get punished. Similarly, if someone tries to commit murder and stabs themselves means they don't get punished. If you jump the start and drop 3 places that's your own stupid fault. Serve your penalty.

Rant over. Yes I do feel better.

It’s a little ridiculous I agree. Sky did a great segment on it. Apparently there is a split second tolerance and bottas was still within the box during this tolerance. Why even is there a tolerance? It’s nonsense rules like this that turn everyone off the sport. Same with decisions 8 hours later. It’s nonsense.

They completely missed Albons reckless dive. He needs to learn patience. Again, nothing from the FIA. We heard nothing about bottas during the race either. It’s frustrating.

 

[GravyMonster]

It’s a little ridiculous I agree. Sky did a great segment on it. Apparently there is a split second tolerance and bottas was still within the box during this tolerance. Why even is there a tolerance? It’s nonsense rules like this that turn everyone off the sport. Same with decisions 8 hours later. It’s nonsense.

They completely missed Albons reckless dive. He needs to learn patience. Again, nothing from the FIA. We heard nothing about bottas during the race either. It’s frustrating.

Agreed. I understand the need for the tolerance in an electrical system which checks for the jumps. But we don't need it. The stewards and fans everywhere can see immediately that he moved while the lights were on.

 

[Mr Jack]

The whole 'not out of your pitbox when you jump the start so it's ok' rule is BS. It was BS when Vettel got away with it, and I'm pretty sure someone else has done it too in the last couple of years, and now Bottas has. It's stupid

I don't really understand why they're saying he wasn't out of his box when he blatantly was:

Did the car move before the lights went out? -> Penalty. IDGAF if you're still 'in the box', you jumped the start. It doesn't need sensors, or some overly complicated system to judge it. We have eyes. We can see it move. I don't care that he stopped again. Just because someone tries to commit murder but only wounds their target doesn't mean they don't get punished. Similarly, if someone tries to commit murder and stabs themselves doesn't mean they don't get punished. If you jump the start and drop X places that's your own stupid fault. Serve your penalty.

It's the same deal as Latifi had; he was released unsafely and got a puncture which lost him a lap. Then he got a penalty on top because of the unsafe release. The attitude of 'they did something dodgy but lost time anyway' is wrong. Rules are rules.

The difference with Latifi is that what happened was dangerous, he's penalised for creating that danger not for his consequences. Jump start is penalised because starting early is an advantage, not because it's dangerous, if no advantage was gained what reason is there to penalise? A bit like leaving the track.

 

[Kenai]

I don't really understand why they're saying he wasn't out of his box when he blatantly was:

His wheels are still in the box at the time the main lights go out, just.

 

[this_is_gav]

I agree with Mr Jack (wow), sometimes common sense should take precedence. It didn't affect anyone else and Bottas dropped back as a result too. A penalty if he had triggered the sensor or the left the box would have been silly.

It's a shame that common sense is a term alien to F1's rules makers.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.monday-morning-debrief-why-hamiltons-hungarian-gp-win-wasnt-as.7o3YxI0ePywQs9Jo6hbxJz.html

Hamilton really is the complete package, his tyre management and driving in changing conditions is off the scale.

It reminds me of the rosberg days when they would have to manage fuel much more and Hamilton would always have some in reserve over rosberg. I don’t know how he does it.

 

[Mr Jack]

His wheels are still in the box at the time the main lights go out, just.

This is a still of his position when he stops after his false start:



Isn't the white line indicated by the arrow, and clearly behind his front wheels, the end of the box? Am I misunderstanding the lines here?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

This is a still of his position when he stops after his false start:



Isn't the white line indicated by the arrow, and clearly behind his front wheels, the end of the box? Am I misunderstanding the lines here?

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/12031993/bottas-race-start-analysis

I quite liked this analysis.

 

[Kenai]

This is a still of his position when he stops after his false start:



Isn't the white line indicated by the arrow, and clearly behind his front wheels, the end of the box? Am I misunderstanding the lines here?

It might be a still of when he stops but it's not a still of when the lights go out, at which point his wheel is still almost touching the yellow line.

The Sky Sports F1 video where they progress it frame by frame is much easier to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOI6YvQu0ZM



As I said, his wheels are (just) in the box when the lights go out.

The real question is - why does the car have it's own separate start lights that have gone off 0.2s before the gantry lights have on Bottas' car? In a sense he didn't jump the start as measured against the lights in his car, the lights in his car jumped the start.

 

[Mr Jack]

I quite liked this analysis.

It might be a still of when he stops but it's not a still of when the lights go out, at which point his wheel is still almost touching the yellow line.

Ah, great, thanks.

 

[Greboth]

Agreed. I understand the need for the tolerance in an electrical system which checks for the jumps. But we don't need it. The stewards and fans everywhere can see immediately that he moved while the lights were on.

I've got some vague recollection the tolerance is due the cars can lurch forward a little when selecting gears sat on the grid so it isn't a simple if they move penalty. I can't find anything to confirm this so might have just been Brundle or whomever saying it on a commentary. That aside though, I do struggle to see how Bottas didn't get a penalty, he bogs down and has a terrible start but doesn't change he moved and didn't even come to a complete stop before pulling away again.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...n-gp-win-wasnt-as.7o3YxI0ePywQs9Jo6hbxJz.html

Hamilton really is the complete package, his tyre management and driving in changing conditions is off the scale.

It reminds me of the rosberg days when they would have to manage fuel much more and Hamilton would always have some in reserve over rosberg. I don’t know how he does it.

Yup, the thing that always amazed me was that Hamilton, using less fuel, was usually faster than Rosberg too. Some of the young drivers may be faster over a lap than Hamilton given equal machinery but over the length of a race and a season, I think it would be hard to say anyone is better.

 

[Feek]

I quite liked this analysis.

Yeah, it's pretty good. He was still behind the white line when the lights went out.

 

[Mr Jack]

Hamilton really is the complete package, his tyre management and driving in changing conditions is off the scale.

I think what really impresses is how he has developed this side of his game. Back in the McLaren days, Button was consistently better with the tyres, but Hamilton had worked out how to fix this part of his driving and is now a real master of taking tyres late into races (even if he does whine about it on the radio). I don't think there's anyone on the grid who would beat him in equal machinery.

 

[413x]

I think what really impresses is how he has developed this side of his game. Back in the McLaren days, Button was consistently better with the tyres, but Hamilton had worked out how to fix this part of his driving and is now a real master of taking tyres late into races (even if he does whine about it on the radio). I don't think there's anyone on the grid who would beat him in equal machinery.

No, no one consistently beats thier team mate as much as Hamilton. You just know Hamilton could overtake Bottas in any race. At same time knowing Bottas can't do the same.

Verstappen and Hamilton in same machine would be amazing

 

[vanpeebles]

No, no one consistently beats thier team mate as much as Hamilton. You just know Hamilton could overtake Bottas in any race. At same time knowing Bottas can't do the same.

Verstappen and Hamilton in same machine would be amazing

Who would take the wheel and who would sit in the back?

 

[mjt]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...n-gp-win-wasnt-as.7o3YxI0ePywQs9Jo6hbxJz.html

Hamilton really is the complete package, his tyre management and driving in changing conditions is off the scale.

It reminds me of the rosberg days when they would have to manage fuel much more and Hamilton would always have some in reserve over rosberg. I don’t know how he does it.

Indeed. The best people always make things look easy. Hamilton & Mercedes are giving their all in every single race and they fully deserve their wins and trophies. It's very easy for the armchair pundit to claim it's easy and boring, but it's anything but.

How many times do we hear that "this record will never be broken" only for someone to come along and completely smash it, like Hamilton & Mercedes are doing now?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

With a major freeze in engine development for the next few years it’s not unrealistic for Hamilton to exceed 7 WDCs and be looking at a number closer to 10.

I started watching F1 in 1994 and for years 3 WDCs seemed godly. After Schumacher got his 7th I genuinely thought it would never be touched.

 

[Ninco!]

With a major freeze in engine development for the next few years it’s not unrealistic for Hamilton to exceed 7 WDCs and be looking at a number closer to 10.

I started watching F1 in 1994 and for years 3 WDCs seemed godly. After Schumacher got his 7th I genuinely thought it would never be touched.

Same here!

7 WDC, I genuinely felt that this would happen again. Then Vettel came along with 4 on the bounce and I thought that was alien!

More recently, Lewis' 6. Never did I think I would see the day when a driver gets close to the Schumacher legacy so soon.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Same here, never thought I’d see it again. Even if he doesn’t get to 7, 6 is crazily impressive. When I first watched Hamilton I had no doubt that he was seriously talented, but then as McLaren declined I figured that was it for championships.