Hypothetical "End of the World" Question

Soldato
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Wow, your parents really did a number on you. That sort of religious indoctrination should be classed under the law as child abuse imo.

My parents probably don't share my beliefs as a matter of fact. So major fail on your part there sadly. :)

I hate to say it, but you do sound an awful lot like one of those zealots who adorns my door from time to time. Your attitude seems to be one of not merely that what I/others believe in/dont believe in is different....but that it is wrong. I always get very suspicious of folks who adamantly and fervently belief that what they think is right and others are wrong. For me its one step away from fanaticism and we've all too often seen how dangerous that attitude can be.

Hopefully I've merely misread your posts , I do find myself wondering just what will happen if "the actual man himself" doesnt turn out to be imminent. If all simply passes without any divine event. Its the same curiosity that made me wonder what would happen if the Y2K calamity didnt happen and more topically what those proponents of the 2012 "prophecy" will do if that also doesnt happen.

I have no troubles with people having beliefs, I do however get my trouble-sense tingling once said people begin "preaching" at me and insinuating that what they think is right and what I think is wrong. Its interesting that so much about religion is built upon the idea that the "user" is in some way special and different to others, interesting to me because many scams in many avenues of life work on the exact same principal of making the "user" feel they are special. (not saying that religion is a scam, thats up to the individual to decide, just saying its an interesting parallel in my mind)

I think you have totally misread my posts. I've never tried to force my beliefs on others, in fact I enjoy reading about other religions, including my own. It's from reading the works of different scholars that I have arrived at my own beliefs, most of which are actually a minority view within my faith.

One thing I remain firm on though, is that truth stands out clear from error. Modern day Christianity has turned its back on holy scripture, they have gone against the very teachings in the bible, ie. eating pork, homosexuality etc etc. How can anyone believe something is from God then change it to suit themselves, for me these ppl are even worse then those who don't follow any religion. At least they are not hypocrites. Maybe I am wrong in my beliefs? Is it wrong of me though to state my beliefs and engage in conversations and debates with ppl of other faiths? I don't think it is. Please show me where I have said what someone else believes is wrong! If I have said such a thing it is simply my opinion to which I will have given reasons. :confused:

Why on earth do you think Christianity is the correct one?;)

If by Christianity you mean followers of Jesus Christ peace and blessings be upon him, then yeah I'm with the Christians... but if you mean the modern day Christianity which has taken the Messiah as a god, or a son of god, then I have no affiliation with such people. It is these very ppl who will be deceived by the false messiah who WILL ACTUALLY CLAIM to be god. ;)
 
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I love how a topic which is a Christian issue somehow got Islam involved.


Muslims, please go over there -------------------> and stay away from what you envy :p
 
Man of Honour
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I think you have totally misread my posts. I've never tried to force my beliefs on others, in fact I enjoy reading about other religions, including my own. It's from reading the works of different scholars that I have arrived at my own beliefs, most of which are actually a minority view within my faith.

One thing I remain firm on though, is that truth stands out clear from error. Modern day Christianity has turned its back on holy scripture, they have gone against the very teachings in the bible, ie. eating pork, homosexuality etc etc. How can anyone believe something is from God then change it to suit themselves, for me these ppl are even worse then those who don't follow any religion. At least they are not hypocrites. Maybe I am wrong in my beliefs? Is it wrong of me though to state my beliefs and engage in conversations and debates with ppl of other faiths? I don't think it is. Please show me where I have said what someone else believes is wrong! If I have said such a thing it is simply my opinion to which I will have given reasons. :confused:

Then I apologise if I misread, its simply that when people start using phrases like "Do you not see" and so forth, it begins to sound preachy to me and tends to get my back up. I'm one of those who dont follow any religion, as I am an ignostic (I believe that you must first define what qualifies as a God before you can possibly believe (or not) in one)

Must admit that I didnt know it was wrong to eat pork , is it just pork or all meats? (if just pork, why just pork and not beef, veal, fish, rabbit etc? Is it something to do with the way its prepared and doesnt apply to bacon or ham etc?)
 
Soldato
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I love how a topic which is a Christian issue somehow got Islam involved.

Muslims, please go over there -------------------> and stay away from what you envy :p

Oh dear oh dear lol, that sounds like another way of saying 'I have no argument or any idea what to say'. :p

I assure you, the 'last age' is by no means a christian only topic. If that is what you think you need to educate yourself a bit more. ;)

I'm one of those who dont follow any religion, as I am an ignostic (I believe that you must first define what qualifies as a God before you can possibly believe (or not) in one)

One definately has to define what qualifies as God, before you can believe in God, I completely agree. I do not believe in any God who is a human being, or is at all anything like the 'creation'.

Must admit that I didnt know it was wrong to eat pork , is it just pork or all meats? (if just pork, why just pork and not beef, veal, fish, rabbit etc? Is it something to do with the way its prepared and doesnt apply to bacon or ham etc?)

In Islam it is forbidden and there are certain verses in the bible also prohibiting it, for the main reason being that the pig is an unclean animal. My point here was, if I personally choose to follow the Quran or the Bible, I must accept what is in there. I can not pick and choose bits, and change other bits to suit my needs as a lot of ppl seem to do these days ie. hypocrites.
 
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Caporegime
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Oh dear oh dear lol, that sounds like another way of saying 'I have no argument or any idea what to say'. :p

I assure you, the 'last age' is by no means a christian only topic. If that is what you think you need to educate yourself a bit more. ;)

So care to put a time scale on it?
 
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Oh dear oh dear lol, that sounds like another way of saying 'I have no argument or any idea what to say'. :p

I assure you, the 'last age' is by no means a christian only topic. If that is what you think you need to educate yourself a bit more. ;)

I was talking about Jesus, not the end of the world.

Nice assuming though.


Speaking of which.....I assume your mum is coming round again tonight?
 
Man of Honour
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In Islam it is forbidden and there are certain verses in the bible also prohibiting it, for the main reason being that the pig is an unclean animal. My point here was, if I personally choose to follow the Quran or the Bible, I must accept what is in there. I can not pick and choose bits, and change other bits to suit my needs as a lot of ppl seem to do these days ie. hypocrites.

But yet you are trying to put a time scale for something which is not in either.
 
Man of Honour
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One definately has to define what qualifies as God, before you can believe in God, I completely agree. I do not believe in any God who is a human being, or is at all anything like the 'creation'.

I'm guessing there must be more to your qualification though than not being human?


In Islam it is forbidden and there are certain verses in the bible also prohibiting it, for the main reason being that the pig is an unclean animal. My point here was, if I personally choose to follow the Quran or the Bible, I must accept what is in there. I can not pick and choose bits, and change other bits to suit my needs as a lot of ppl seem to do these days ie. hypocrites.

I can see the logic in not being able to pick and choose. What makes the pig "unclean"? I assume then it does indeed apply to bacon, ham and gammon also then?
 
Soldato
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So care to put a time scale on it?

My own personal view, is that things will happen within the next 50 years. The reason I say this is that things are so bad in the middle east, I can't see them staying this bad (or even getting worse) for 50+ yrs. There are also numerous hadith which have been fulfilled, and also hadith speaking of the Sea of Galilee drying up. I believe Israel will dominate that region for as long as there is water in the Sea of Galilee.

I was talking about Jesus, not the end of the world.

Nice assuming though.


Speaking of which.....I assume your mum is coming round again tonight?

How old are you? lol

But yet you are trying to put a time scale for something which is not in either.

Based on signs, are we not able to estimate? I think we can, and that's all we are doing, estimating based on prophecies which have been, and are being fulfilled.
 
Man of Honour
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My point here was, if I personally choose to follow the Quran or the Bible, I must accept what is in there. I can not pick and choose bits, and change other bits to suit my needs as a lot of ppl seem to do these days ie. hypocrites.

I certainly wouldn't. A book written thousands of years ago and translated several times isn't going to necessarily to reflect the balance between good deeds and shameful behaviour particularly well. Surely being kind, generous, forgiving, nice, righteous and fair are all most important than random rules regarding whether somebody should drink or not?

I'm not a Christian, but I'd like to think I live my life in the spirit of the new testament. Jesus was a great chap, whether he existed or whether he really was the son of god is pretty irrelevant to me.

But each to their own :)
 
Man of Honour
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Based on signs, are we not able to estimate? I think we can, and that's all we are doing, estimating based on prophecies.

No, as those signs are open to interpretation and can apply to many things. Predictions have been made thousands of times. You have not got it from you sacred source and any time scale applied is a lie. You, just like thousands before you, will be disappointed with your man made time scales.
 
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Soldato
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I certainly wouldn't. A book written thousands of years ago and translated several times isn't going to necessarily to reflect the balance between good deeds and shameful behaviour particularly well. Surely being kind, generous, forgiving, nice, righteous and fair are all most important than random rules regarding whether somebody should drink or not?

I'm not a Christian, but I'd like to think I live my life in the spirit of the new testament. Jesus was a great chap, whether he existed or whether he really was the son of god is pretty irrelevant to me.

But each to their own :)

Fair play to you, I would never condemn you because I like yourself am only human, I am in no position to judge another person. My own beliefs are that it is only God who can judge, and we will all be brought back before our Creator and we will all have to account for ourselves, one day.

You may have taken bits and pieces from certain religious scriptures and applied them in your life, I can't knock that. It's not the same as a priest opening preaching he is a homosexual, when the Bible clearly states its stance on homosexuality. Do you get what I mean? It's hypocritical and makes no sense.

No, as those signs are open to interpretation and can apply to many things. Predictions have been made thousands of times. You have not got it from you scared source and any time scale applied is a lie. You just like thousands before you will be disappointed with your man made time scales.

The signs are definately open to interpretation, and it is my own interpretation based on scholars which I follow or agree with, that leads me to my estimation. I agree with most of what you said that ppl have been coming for yrs making predictions, but that doesn't mean we totally dismiss everything because previously so many ppl have been wrong.

If I said the world is definately ending in 2012, or something like that, I agree you would have had me but I wouldn't say anything so ridiculous :)

I'm guessing there must be more to your qualification though than not being human?

There is. This one small verse in the Quran is I suppose the touchstone of theology in Islam.

In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Say: He is God, the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like Him.


Any one that fits this 4 line definition, I can accept as God.
 
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Man of Honour
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If I said the world is definately ending in 2012, or something like that, I agree you would have had me but I wouldn't say anything so ridiculous :)

You say something equally ridiculous of 50 years.
There are only precursors to the end. There is no time scale or length of these precursors. Making a prediction is absurd.
 
Soldato
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You say something equally ridiculous of 50 years.
There are only precursors to the end. There is no time scale or length of these precursors. Making a prediction is absurd.

You seem to have mistaken something said as an estimation, to something said as an absolute fact. :confused:

I don't think it's absurd to make a prediction though, so I disagree with you on that point.
 
Man of Honour
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There is. This one small verse in the Quran is I suppose the touchstone of theology in Islam.

In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Say: He is God, the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like Him.


Any one that fits this 4 line definition, I can accept as God.

Surely God did begetteth though? If we are to believe that Jesus Christ is his son, that would be the very act of begetting.

Having said that, would an Android fit that definition. If it was a unique one. It would be the one and only, with none like it. It would not beget and would be eternal. See its these kind of dilemmas (which get even more problematic when you throw in the kinds of possible "characteristics" that advanced alien life forms might have) which leave me as an Ignostic, unable to define or see any clear applicable definition of what is a god. Not that I mind being an Ignostic of course, its a standpoint which has so far served me well in life :)
 
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