Lol, a PC gamers uprising consists of people complaining on the Internet, then following the crowd anyway. And people wonder why devs never treat the PC community with respect.
If this is what future gaming is then I say NO THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter apatia77
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Lol, a PC gamers uprising consists of people complaining on the Internet, then following the crowd anyway. And people wonder why devs never treat the PC community with respect.
Soldato
Taking the most obvious difference, it's processing in a 2d plane for starters, and certainly not doing skeletal tracking, just doing basic movement based detection.. So quite a lot on a technical scale..
But of course you probably knew that, judging by the thread on the 'Gaf, it's the standard SDF dig at Natal..
Soldato
Taking the most obvious difference, it's processing in a 2d plane for starters, and certainly not doing skeletal tracking, just doing basic movement based detection.. So quite a lot on a technical scale..
But of course you probably knew that, judging by the thread on the 'Gaf, it's the standard SDF dig at Natal..
o rly? because the first video looked like they were doing what the eye toy people were doing in the video I posted. :/
Soldato
O rly back at ya..
If you want to be like that, the video you posted only had 1 person spazzing out in front of a camera to play a game, the OP had more then 1?
Forgive me for thinking you where asking what is the 'difference' between the Natal concept shown and some old eye-toy (or any web-cam based motion detection game), I took the fact people dancing around in front of a camera was kind of obvious, oh and the fact you said "What is the difference between Natal and [and old eye-toy/webcam game]"..
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Soldato
This just looks more convincing. Still not sold on it but I can understand what it actually does.
Tiger Woods 1080p with motion controls. Win?
Yea, I get it. Its a more advanced eye toy.. just like move being a more advanced Wii controller.
I just don't see how natal is going to be more than what the eye toy is. I'm intrigued but nothing I've seen so far has sold me on it. I really don't want to play a "hardcore" game without some sort of controller in my hand.
Also, 3D will be the main selling point for the next gen systems... will we even care about motion controllers by then? Sony and Microsoft are a little late don't you think with this?
Tiger Woods 1080p with motion controls. Win?
O rly back at ya..
If you want to be like that, the video you posted only had 1 person spazzing out in front of a camera to play a game, the OP had more then 1?
Forgive me for thinking you where asking what is the 'difference' between the Natal concept shown and some old eye-toy (or any web-cam based motion detection game), I took the fact people dancing around in front of a camera was kind of obvious...
Yea, I get it. Its a more advanced eye toy.. just like move being a more advanced Wii controller.
I just don't see how natal is going to be more than what the eye toy is. I'm intrigued but nothing I've seen so far has sold me on it. I really don't want to play a "hardcore" game without some sort of controller in my hand.
Also, 3D will be the main selling point for the next gen systems... will we even care about motion controllers by then? Sony and Microsoft are a little late don't you think with this?
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Soldato
How fanboyish
But methinks you are doing it for the Lulz.. it certainly has me chuckling..But, what the hell, "Move" is the dogs, I mean we've never seen anything like it before, using a control stick in your hand to replicate a golf club, box, or point at stuff on-screen..
Oh wait, yes we have, about 4 years ago...
And if you are serious about 3D, then since all these systems are fully 3D aware, and track you/the controllers in 3D, I think it'll all tie in nicely, if developers put some thought into it!..
We all have our favourites, what's good this time is we have two slightly different spins on motion control, both have room to provide some new experiences if done well..
Natal is different to a webcam(eye-toy) in that it's a full 3D sensor, it can detect your limbs in 3D accurately even with the lights out..
It's the same leap that Move is to a Six-axis controller..
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Soldato
How fanboyish
But, what the hell, "Move" is the dogs, I mean we've never seen anything like it before, using a control stick in your hand to replicate a golf club, box, or point at stuff on-screen..
Oh wait, yes we have, about 4 years ago...
:/
I'd play a Tiger woods game with HD graphics with move. I have 08 on the Wii and PS3 and don't care for it on the wii because of the graphics. I like the motion controls but my god it just looks horrible.
No **** move is nothing new. I never said it was. Natal with its face recognition and all that is something that could be pretty cool.. milo was interesting but I don't think we will ever see a proper experience like that any time soon with natal.
I'm just saying, move is more familiar than natal is right now. No one really knows what Microsoft are going to do with it and what games will use it.
And if you are serious about 3D, then since all these systems are fully 3D aware, and track you/the controllers in 3D, I think it'll all tie in nicely, if developers put some thought into it!..
Motion controls plus 3D games? I really don't think developers are going to be able to do epic scale games when they have to make the 3d and motion controls work well.
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Soldato
And if you are serious about 3D, then since all these systems are fully 3D aware, and track you/the controllers in 3D, I think it'll all tie in nicely, if developers put some thought into it!..
3d stops working when you reach out to touch something close and it isn't there.
Soldato
Natal does full skeletal tracking, so really you can do Golf/Tennis/Boxing and all the more familiar stuff, it might not be as mm accurate as Move, but I don't think that level of accuracy is required..
I'd be as scared Natal will be pants as I would be that direct Wii shovel ware will find it's way to Move, I'm sure most Wii games translate almost immediately to Move..
, If you remember the face tracking in 3D demo with the Wii-mote, moving around the room changed the 'view' on the screen, that is actually quite an immersive thing to do, both Natal and Move should be able to do this well enough, I think it can augment 3D very well indeed..
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Soldato
Lets not get ridiculous here, these are make believe computer games we are talking about, and 3D isn't just about reaching out to touch stuff, it's also about moving around in a space, and your viewpoint on things..
Depth for starters unlike your constant fault finding with anything and everything MS.
That camera/experience your showing is a 2D mirror experience also used in 360 games like You're in the Movies etc. Natal offers a motorised camera, IR camera, voice recognition, facial recognition and some of the most advanced software ever written for tracking bodies in 3D space.
I'm personally excited for both this and Move, but then again I'm over 20 and have a family and kids. It's so easy to bash videos of 30/40 year olds flailing their arms around but this is the market MS are going for with Natal; heck, if I saw videos of myself playing DDR, Lips, Wii Sport etc. with my kids it'd probably make for a great gif but I wouldn't bash the product just because of them.
There's been a great number of positive hands on reports of Natal lately in both the mainstream and hardcore press yet the uninformed bashing still continues unabated; it's weary.
Soldato
Every Natal video I've seen thus far has demonstrated tracking delays and the people presenting or demonstrating Natal are probably obligated not to speak negatively about the product.
PS3's Move looks like glorified Wii material.
Both are likely to have their own advantages in some genres, but on the whole I'm not convinced.
PS3's Move looks like glorified Wii material.
Both are likely to have their own advantages in some genres, but on the whole I'm not convinced.
Soldato
I dont think it was a fanboyish thing for robert to say atall, Im in agreement that Playstations move tech is gonna work better than skeletal tracking of natal
A point of reference is always going to be better than on the fly skeletal tracking.
Look at how things are digitized, Footballer models into fifa games, etc. They always require the balls for point of reference. Real time tracking on natal isnt going to work aswell as the 2 glowing balls from Sony. Not all. And whos to say it'll be limited at 2 balls? Trackable shoes and headset? At extra cost no doubt. But i think its gonna be a better implimented system
A point of reference is always going to be better than on the fly skeletal tracking.
Look at how things are digitized, Footballer models into fifa games, etc. They always require the balls for point of reference. Real time tracking on natal isnt going to work aswell as the 2 glowing balls from Sony. Not all. And whos to say it'll be limited at 2 balls? Trackable shoes and headset? At extra cost no doubt. But i think its gonna be a better implimented system
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Soldato
I think the 'lag' is something that does need to be proved, even if it doesn't affect the game too much (Game design can accomodate lag if required), they do need to make it as close to perceivably realtime as they can, as I think most of us will be quite acutely aware it's there and it'll bug us..
But I don't think there is some major consipiracy afoot, too many celebs and gaming press seem to be united on this one, they usually love to be controversial to boost ratings etc..
Move does look like a glorified Wii control, but it's better in a lot of areas, so I'm not dismissive of it either..
They will both live or die by the manufacturer and developer support, and both look set to stay, although you do get the sense MS are putting a lot more eggs in their Natal basket..
Soldato
You can compare Wave/Natal to the wii IMO it seems even more casual than the Wii in what we have seen SO FAR. Im sure as i said earlier that I expect at E3 to be shown it being used along side a normal controller for more core games. As for Move it can do and has been shown to do most that Natal can and in some areas more, but requires better lighting (no IR cam) and the Wands. The one thing i want to know is how much room is required for both to track your movement, think this will be a bigger issue for Natal than the move as move it just tracks your balls p).
p).
Soldato
I think posting a deliberate eye-toy comparison and playing 'dumb' about how Natal is different to a web-cam is highly questionable, he's an intelligent poster by all accounts isn't he.
And I don't get why people are so one-sided.. Of course Move is more accurate for the control method it portrays, that's what it's been designed for, and admirably so..
But skeletal tracking isn't about hyper accuracy, it's a different control method with it's own unique strengths, it can do good approximate control of a large amount different things without any need for physical objects, e.g. Kicking the ball in a penalty for Fifa..
So both can 'win' in their own way.. why is it necessary to start creating a small subset of criteria now which suits your own choice and declaring 'winners'... seems silly to me...
I think since balls (LOL) or hands, movement is movement, if you want to mimic a realistic range of motion for boxing/golf and the like, the 'room' aspect will be the same, although clearly Rich-o-chet is clearly something that needs more room, but considering the Wii has already set the precedence for needing plenty of room for moving around in games like WiiSports, I am doubting it's actually going to be an issue!You can compare Wave/Natal to the wii IMO it seems even more casual than the Wii in what we have seen SO FAR. Im sure as i said earlier that I expect at E3 to be shown it being used along side a normal controller for more core games. As for Move it can do and has been shown to do most that Natal can and in some areas more, but requires better lighting (no IR cam) and the Wands. The one thing i want to know is how much room is required for both to track your movement, think this will be a bigger issue for Natal than the move as move it just tracks your balls
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Soldato
ohhhhhhhh sting.
ouch. nice one.
For what I've seen they look like the same thing. Thats just my opinion. I'm fully aware its more advanced and can do more but we really haven't seen much more than people doing what the eye toy did.
milo was pretty cool and burnout looked like a headache to play.
I want to see natal used by someone that isn't being paid to play it and in a real room with real people.
I am fully aware that move is nothing more than an advanced wii controller but since I play my PS3 more, I am more excited for move. Playing third person shooters or first person shooters will be what I am looking most forward to. We have seen it work on the Wii and it does work pretty well... a little janky but thats where I think the move might excel in. Socom looked really good with these controls.
ohhh ahhh double sting.
Things are getting a little heated in here. I am not playing dumb... the first video didn't exactly look advanced or really show off the technology well. It looked like an eye toy game. Thats the point I was making.
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Soldato
ohhhhhhhh sting.
ouch. nice one.
For what I've seen they look like the same thing. Thats just my opinion. I'm fully aware its more advanced and can do more but we really haven't seen much more than people doing what the eye toy did.
milo was pretty cool and burnout looked like a headache to play.
I want to see natal used by someone that isn't being paid to play it and in a real room with real people.
I am fully aware that move is nothing more than an advanced wii controller but since I play my PS3 more, I am more excited for move. Playing third person shooters or first person shooters will be what I am looking most forward to. We have seen it work on the Wii and it does work pretty well... a little janky but thats where I think the move might excel in. Socom looked really good with these controls.
ohhh ahhh double sting.
Things are getting a little heated in here. I am not playing dumb... the first video didn't exactly look advanced or really show off the technology well. It looked like an eye toy game. Thats the point I was making.
I Know you are just messing, it's not that heated!
I'm pushiing Move as an excuse to get a PS3 in the front room, GT5 on the 1080p projector is something I want to experience!!!
But at the same time, my Wii has broken, and I want to replace that with Natal, since I'm sure the casual games will show the missus it's 'for the family'...
Not read through all this thread but i watched the video. I own a wii, i dont use it much but the better games dont require much of the motion controll as people have said. Ok so these things are good for a laugh, good for when you have a bunch of friends / family over ect BUT if this is the ways its going to be for all games in the future, then thanks but no thanks, ill stick to PC games.
The last thing im gonna want to do when coming in from work is start waving my arms around and jumping around like a idiot on my own for a normal single player game. seriously this sucks, imagen playing fifa with no controller.
The last thing im gonna want to do when coming in from work is start waving my arms around and jumping around like a idiot on my own for a normal single player game. seriously this sucks, imagen playing fifa with no controller.
Soldato
But at the same time, my Wii has broken, and I want to replace that with Natal,
Ah well, at least with Natal you can't run the risk of doing this.