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Immigration - They seems to be serious about it

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by regulus, 26 Jun 2010.

  1. regulus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Aug 2006

    Posts: 9,880

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    At least according to the latest report with the introduction on a cap for non EU immigrants. As a liberal, I welcome this move although I cannot help but notice that some 'experts' now decry the move and seem to be backtracking fast. I still feel that does not solve all of our problems since swaths of EU migrants are still allowed to settle here unchecked. It does not bother me in the slightest, but my comment is more aimed at people for whom this does irritate.

    I'm also very curious to see how this new cap would be introduced as it's already very difficult for non EU's to come here, regardless of what people may say. Would it be made more difficult for highly skilled migrants? Would they go after non EU spouses of EU citizens? Non EU students studying at UK universities?

    What do you guys think about this move?
     
    Last edited: 26 Jun 2010
  2. sidthesexist

    Hitman

    Joined: 23 Jul 2006

    Posts: 937

    Question is will they cap the number of non EU students coming here? I believe I am right in saying that the number of non EU students coming here has jumped in recent years as people have seen this as an easy way into the country. They then bail from what ever "college" they are supposed to be attending and disapeer into the black economy.
     
  3. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Jun 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    According to C4 news, the number of non-EU immigrants last year was around 55,000 - under this new cap we will receive around 25,000 non-EU immigrants. It's worth noting that low skilled workers from outside the EU are already prevented from obtaining a work visa - this is just for "highly skilled" immigrants.

    Personally I welcome this move, it should increase opportunities for highly skilled UK workers to get back in employment and increase their skill set. I'd like to see the cap set lower but at least it's a start. One thing I'd like to know is do this cap include the frequently abused intra-company transfer immigrants?
     
  4. i know nothing

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Feb 2004

    Posts: 3,410

    Location: Norfolk Broads

    They already have, whether or not they make it more difficult remains to be seen.
     
  5. Tinders

    Soldato

    Joined: 1 Jul 2003

    Posts: 5,477

    Location: There's a voice that keeps on calling me.

    Non EU - I take it that includes the USA,Aus immigrants aswell? Who the hell is gonna work in our bars now? :p

    The last 10 years has shown its not non EU but the EU immigrants that are the issue.

    As for the spousal visa's, they are making that better, the age limit is now 21 and the ability to speak English is a must, so that should stop sham and forced arranged marriages.
     
  6. [email protected]

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Nov 2005

    Posts: 11,472

    its EU migrants we need to stop as well , fed up of seeing hordes of Hungarian and polish women walking around smoking and drinking whilst carrying a bun in the oven, with granma,grandad and the other 3 kids in tow.
     
  7. rypt

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Mar 2008

    Posts: 11,535

    Location: London

    I'd prefer for an American style H1 visa system, but with no cap for highs killed people.
    I would however like a cap on EU low skill migration
     
  8. Inquisitor

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Apr 2004

    Posts: 11,788

    Location: Birmingham

    Got any more absurd generalizations to throw around?
     
  9. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 49,600

    Location: Plymouth

    It would be much better all around if people realised that immigrants weren't the problem, natives are...

    We spend immeasurably more on 'scrounging' natives than we do on 'scrounging' immigrants (for record, as this is an immigration thread, scrounging will include all net benefit recipients for both parties).

    We trap natives in poverty and dependency far more readily than we do immigrants. It is our 'welfare state' that makes working counterproductive for many of the low economic potential earners, not immigrants. Immigrants are doing these jobs because they aren't entitled to quite the same scrounging rights as the natives.

    I know it's much easier to blame a scapegoat, but down that road lies the issue of never actually addressing the problem...
     
  10. rypt

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Mar 2008

    Posts: 11,535

    Location: London

    No-one is blaming immigrants, but if we stopped the low skilled migrants taking jobs then we can force the scroungers to do those jobs
     
  11. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 49,600

    Location: Plymouth

    No, we can't, not while the benefit trap remains unfixed.

    When you have a system that can give someone the lifestyle vastly above their earning potential, there is no incentive to take a job.

    Look at housing benefit, even with the revised figures from the new budget, the maximum claim can be over £20,000 a year in rent alone. That's the equivalent of a household gross income of around £30,000 just spent on housing, so using a 25% housing budget, that's a household income equivalent of around £120,000 to rent a similar property.

    What housing benefit recipient really has that sort of earning potential?

    And that's before all the other benefits that rapidly taper off. We need a system where work always benefits, rather than work being punished.
     
  12. rypt

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Mar 2008

    Posts: 11,535

    Location: London

    I did say force, as in go do that job as from tomorrow you are getting zilch
     
  13. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 49,600

    Location: Plymouth

    But without reform, all forcing people to work will do is mean they work poorly in the hope of being dismissed, or interview poorly in the hope of not getting the job.

    Changing the system to ensure that work is always beneficial is a much better way of doing it, and much less authoritarian with it.
     
  14. KNiVES

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Jan 2005

    Posts: 14,844

    I've met many Polish people and if I had to make a generalization about them, it would be on the other extreme end of the spectum - they're the hardest working people I've ever came across.

    They are also returning to their homeland in large numbers in recent years. It's a loss I feel.
     
  15. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Jun 2005

    Posts: 15,820

    Theres probably more work in Poland now...
     
  16. regulus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Aug 2006

    Posts: 9,880

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    A great loss. I spoke here previously about an irreplaceble group of Poles I lost who went back to Poland as they reckon 'England is over'.

    Funny enough, in my efforts the past 5 years of getting to know Eastern Euro immigrants, I've yet to encounter the generalisation so impressively detailed by [email protected] It's just a shame his venom was born out of hate and not facts.

    Without fail, they've all been work horses.
     
  17. TJM

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Jun 2007

    Posts: 2,379

    I think this is something the anti-immigration crew fail to appreciate. It is a Bad Thing when immigrants aren't arriving to take jobs. It means your economy is up the creek.
     
  18. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Jun 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    Or maybe they're leaving because they're tired of being treated like **** by incompetent British managers.
     
  19. Danthus

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Jun 2010

    Posts: 15,352

    You can as easily swap Hungarian and Polish for English, Welsh or Scottish.
     
  20. Rich_L

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 18,172

    Location: Santa Barbara, Californee

    Seems like an absolutely terrible idea, quite why you would want to arbitrarily limit the number of high-skilled workers from coming into the country and forcing businesses to employ less-suitable 'natives' rather than the people they want instead is beyond me - but I suppose it helps Dave and pals look 'tough' on immigration.