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Intel or AMD - crystal ball time!

Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,122
Id go AMD, the performance is close enough, but Im betting that if you get a 6 core now you will be able to drop it into whatever socket AMD have next year. AMD have a history of backwards compatability, Intel dont :mad:

Thats not the whole story tho... quite often old AMD boards while socket compatible with newer CPUs don't fully support all the newer features and its not uncommon for them to lack sufficent power circuitry to run the latest CPUs properly (specially when OC'd). So you end up upgrading motherboard in the end anyhow.
 
Caporegime
Joined
14 Dec 2005
Posts
28,071
Location
armoy, n. ireland
Im gonna stick with i7 for the time being, my last rig was an asus p5q deluxe, q9550 at 3.8ghz with 4gb of ocz reaper pc 8500, people said i was mad to move from that, at the start they were probably right, no difference in gaming (currently running a gtx 275, which is garbage), want 5870 xfire, in tasks like video encoding, my i7 is a flying machine, even at stock, plus its such a nice platform to overclock on.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
7,071
Other than cost the i7 is pretty compelling and if you go for a high end AMD mobo right now plus a 1090T the cost is very close to i7...and both will be superseded in less than a year...
 
Permabanned
Joined
28 Nov 2006
Posts
5,750
Location
N Ireland
yup its the price factor mostly i think and amd's leo platform looks really great as well.for anyone who doesnt know leo platform is basically thier latest cpu and graphics using the 890GX/FX motherboards.


this is my rig for 2010 if the 6 core can do 4ghz

6 core 1095T black edition
890FX mobo
12GB ddr3
ati 5870
corsair hx 850w 2x8 pin pci-e
120gb ssd (sata6gb)


pretty much set there for 3-4 years and packing all the latest gear :O
 
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Associate
Joined
9 Feb 2010
Posts
242
Location
Bristol
yup its the price factor mostly i think and amd's leo platform looks really great as well.for anyone who doesnt know leo platform is basically thier latest cpu and graphics using the 890GX/FX motherboards.


this is my rig for 2010 if the 6 core can do 4ghz

6 core 1095T black edition
890FX mobo
12GB ddr3
ati 5870
corsair hx 850w 2x8 pin pci-e
120gb ssd (sata6gb)


pretty much set there for 3-4 years and packing all the latest gear :O

4GHz.. I expect it can... just
 
Soldato
Joined
26 Jun 2009
Posts
3,023
Location
Sheffield
Wait for some proper benchmarks to come out, there are a few floating around now of them doing 4.4ghz on turbo. (3 cores boosted only).

They have already beaten the i7 in a few benchmarks I've seen so far, but none of them are very trustworthy if you ask me. When they hit the UK and I see some proper overclocking results and benchmarks, that's when I'll start drawing assumptions.
 
Associate
Joined
9 Feb 2010
Posts
242
Location
Bristol
Wait for some proper benchmarks to come out, there are a few floating around now of them doing 4.4ghz on turbo. (3 cores boosted only).

They have already beaten the i7 in a few benchmarks I've seen so far, but none of them are very trustworthy if you ask me. When they hit the UK and I see some proper overclocking results and benchmarks, that's when I'll start drawing assumptions.

Some but it is generally easy to OC i7 to 4GHz, more is easy too, but temperatures are hot the main problem.

Stock AMD PII 965 beat i5 750 at stock from a review I saw, but not by that much.. i7 920 will be similar at stock with the improvement of triple channel ram and HT, when utilized.. it's still an apples and oranges game.. personally I think by the time 6+ cores are utilised intel will have something new and the 6x i7's will be cheap enough
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
7,213
Location
Grimsby, UK
yup its the price factor mostly i think and amd's leo platform looks really great as well.for anyone who doesnt know leo platform is basically thier latest cpu and graphics using the 890GX/FX motherboards.


this is my rig for 2010 if the 6 core can do 4ghz

6 core 1095T black edition
890FX mobo
12GB ddr3
ati 5870
corsair hx 850w 2x8 pin pci-e
120gb ssd (sata6gb)


pretty much set there for 3-4 years and packing all the latest gear :O
4 x 2GB = 8GB
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
7,071
Wait for some proper benchmarks to come out, there are a few floating around now of them doing 4.4ghz on turbo. (3 cores boosted only).

They have already beaten the i7 in a few benchmarks I've seen so far, but none of them are very trustworthy if you ask me. When they hit the UK and I see some proper overclocking results and benchmarks, that's when I'll start drawing assumptions.

Think I have to agree with this, only a week or so to go so we'll soon find out, let's hope it makes the decision a bit easier!
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
33,188
For 99.9% of people on this forum, buying a 555be, unlocking it, you won't get any extra performance spending $1000 on a hex core Intel i7, nor a £200 AMD hex core either, heck even if it doesnt' unlock, sell on a forum for £70 and buy another one, most do unlock however.

These days 4.2Ghz is easy at sub 50C load with any decent cooler with all 4 cores unlocked.

For those that really need the performance, you'd have to decide what you can afford and whats the best in that bracket, if you're making money based on time limits and how fast you rig can get stuff done, almost no price is too high.

But you should potentially be seeing a 4Ghz + hex core AMD beat a quad core i7 in quite a few multithreaded(and 6 thread capable) programs, encoding, 3d modeling and some other stuff.

For gaming, i7 won't get you a single FPS over an AMD setup and a hex core AMD at £200 with a stupidly expensive Crosshair mobo won't get you a single FPS over the cheapest Intel quad(and probably in most situations a dual core clocked high enough either).

I can quite easily see the AMD hex core being not close to the 980x performance, but ahead of the quad core i7 in quite a lot of situations, considering the price jump to get into an Intel hex core they are awful value to be honest.


As for the future, AFAIK Bulldozer will in no way be compatible with AM3, and current chips won't work in Bulldozer Mobo's, its time for a large step forward in terms of socket/power/setup for Bulldozer.

I had thought Sandybridge was supposed to be a pretty large step forward but it would seem not, and it might launch first in mobile and dual core + intergrated GPU setups rather than higher end quads/hex/octo's, though I've not read a lot about it.

Everything I've read, added with a little gut feeling and all the info release on Bulldozer suggests it will be a truly fantastic CPU architecture, however it might not massively shine till you start sticking great low end GPU's on die, which will honestly trounce Intels equivilent gpu offerings. Its looking increasingly likely that AMD/Intel won't be sticking low end gpu's in their highest end chips till beyond Sandybridge and the first Bulldozer's.

I've been recommending this for some time, for most applications you won't gain anything from going to a hex core, AMD are easily the better value and with options for getting quad's at dual core prices, and very soon, hex's at quad core prices with unlocking, Intel can't compete.

Dual cores aren't competitive enough and Intel's cheapest quads just can't match unlocked dual core, or the lowest AMD quads in pricing. These days a quad really is the thing to go for.

ANY quad from really, the past 2 years will last the next year, 2 probably and maybe even 3 years more in terms of gaming and 99% of home user applications.

More than enough to last till Intel/AMD's next gen, so no matter the company, brand, loyalty, I'd be buying the value end of either company, a i7 750, or a dual core unlocked for AMD< or a cheap P2 quad(in a couple weeks the new ones that might unlock to hex cores would be silly not to go for to be honest).

Sata 3 and USB 3 are completely pointless for almost everyone. Sure USB3 might finally enable some hard drive enclosures to do better speeds over USB, but e-sata already maxes out the hard drives, so its not a huge deal.

Theres only one Sata 3 SSD to date, and its not the best SSD around anyway, its still the random read/writes of any size that tend to dictate how a system "feels" rather than the sequential, random read/writes are so far below the Sata 2 limits that Sata 3 is basically redundant for now and really shouldn't be in most peoples thinking for "must have features", they sound good but are almost completely useless for EVERYONE.

AFAIK theres only a handful of USB3 devices, most memory sticks with writes at 10mb/s anyway.
 
Associate
Joined
11 Oct 2007
Posts
1,287
Do you have a source for Bulldozer changing sockets? The road maps i have seen showed it as an AM3 compatible CPU.

The only reason for change would be if more memory channels were added, or graphics were integrated to the CPU
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
7,071
I think drunken master talks a lot of sense, of course that doesn't usually fit well with hobbies ;) Going for the cheaper options and unlocking/overclocking also makes sense but perhaps the current high end does make sense if you intend to keep if for some time. They may not use all their power right now for say gaming but as GPU's get more powerful you're going to use more of that cpu power aren't you?
 
Permabanned
Joined
28 Nov 2006
Posts
5,750
Location
N Ireland
for 99.99% cpu is the important bit, we build rigs to last 3 years unlike the richer folk on here who just buy stuff for fun like that £999 980X extreme, being cpu limited is very very real and why anyone would put themselves in such situation is beyond me.

CPU FIRST along with a good psu(2x8pin) means u can drop in top of the line graphics for 3-4 years without people saying omg wot a waste your cpu limited.i skimped out on a dual core and blew £350 on a 8800 GTX and now im struggling in almost all my games and dare not try GTAIV. my psu is only 2x6 pin and even if i did upgrade id be cpu limited so in essence i now need a new cpu or a whole new pc where as if i had taken the quad+psu with proper future proof pins i could just drop in a 5970 but now i lack the 8 pin and the horsepower from my 600w psu.


sure if u skimp on the graphics for cpu at the start its going to be slightly lacking compared to if u had put all your money on a GPU but 1 year down the line things completely change when you have saved enuff for a proper card to partner that CPU and the one u might buy after that!


thats my 2 cents from experience and ill never do it again, my new rig this next few months will have 4-6 cores and 8-12GB ram and a psu with 2x8 pin's and ill drop in my 4890 for a few months, once ATI 6xxxx series land i can drop one in easily perhaps 2 in crossfire and have enough cpu power and ram to feed it.not to mention having 8x pin's for whatever monster card that eventually requires one!

another thing im going to check out later is actually how much % we are looking at and general smoothness of games, after a google it seems SSD and RAM might be two more very big factors in some games (ARMAII).

more to follow when i read it all tonight!
 
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Permabanned
Joined
28 Nov 2006
Posts
5,750
Location
N Ireland
Do you have a source for Bulldozer changing sockets? The road maps i have seen showed it as an AM3 compatible CPU.

The only reason for change would be if more memory channels were added, or graphics were integrated to the CPU


ive also seen this, bulldozer listed as AM3, someone said somewhere thier first bulldozer would work on am3 motherboards its ddr3 surely it can no? i wouldnt mind if it was a new socket as long as i can fill the damm 4 dimm's and not lose speed :|
 
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Associate
Joined
9 Feb 2010
Posts
242
Location
Bristol
I assume no to the reviews then..

So I just looked for some.. seems China has some of the chips first..

According to these tests ( http://forum.coolaler.com/showpost.php?p=2601846&postcount=25 ).. it is not as good as the i7 965, but better than the i7 860..

Overclocked to 4.2GHz.. still doesn't beat the i7 965, no other i7's compared

However it seems prices are going to contend with i5 750, and the i7 920 and 930.

Backwards compatible with AM3, same features, but added turbo boost feature.

This is the tested rig:
CPU:AMD Phenom II X6 1090T BE @ 3.2GHz
MB:MSI 790GX-G65 BIOS:4.0
RAM:A-data DDR3 1333 2GB*2
Winchip DDR3 1333 2GB*2
PSU:acbel 300w

I'm thinking the next load of reviews will be similar, even though this is just 1 single foreign review.

amd x4 > i5 750 > i7 800's > amd x6 (maybe with some lower i7 900's @ stock) > i7 900's > i7 x6

Looks to be a smarter option than the i5's and i7 800's soon, but I doubt it will be too noticible.
 
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