Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

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RDM

RDM

Soldato
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Well it gives the women and children a break from being killed.
Doesn't answer your question but the above is good enough reason to want it.

No, it would probably lead to a lot more people being killed, but if you think that is a worthy price for sticking it to Israel...
 
Soldato
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This is nothing new from Israel which is why I wouldn't rely on their word for anything let alone a ceasefire agreement. Bet they don't grant ANY of the agreements made during the ceasefire but will cry wolf when the Palestinians retaliate.

I expected nothing less from these people unfortunately. :(

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...stinians-land-seizure-201491141050739843.html

Israel seizes most West Bank land in 30 years
Palestinians and US officials condemn move that will connect West Bank settlements to those in south Jerusalem.
 
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Caporegime
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It's no coincidence that the biggest ethnic group within Israel are Russians. What is it with Russians and annexing parts of other people's countries :mad: Israel is definitely ethnically cleansing Palestine.
 
Soldato
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British citizens who fight in the Israeli army to face criminal prosecution on their return to UK

Responsible department: Home Office

British citizen are going Israel to fight in the IDF(Israeli defence force) on occupied territories. Anybody who has broken the fourth protocol of the Geneva Convention deserves to face justice in court for their crimes.

It is also a crime under British law for a British nationals to serve in a foreign army under the 'Foreign Enlistment Act 1870' making it a criminal offence.

These individuals need to be arrested and face prosecution in British courts on their return to the UK

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/67893
 
Caporegime
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It's comforting to think that but imo they are a proper army now, well funded, well motivated and well equipped. They will be a credible threat to Israel ironically if Assad is toppled.

no they're not... they have some shiny new expensive equipment but they're hardly a 'proper army'... the command and control, logistics etc.. simply isn't there... making some gains in Syria, in the middle of a civil war, when people are switching sides, whole portions of the population fighting each other and making gains in Iraq when Sunni militia are either standing aside or assisting and the Iraqi army is deciding not to put up much resistance are rather different to taking on a well equipped, well trained army...

Look how quickly the Iraqi army was crushed in the Invasion by the US, UK etc.. It really wouldn't be an issue for Israel to fight back if attacked by them
 
Caporegime
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Out in the open easily....get into their towns like they did in syria and it gets a lot more messy.

no it doesn't... its unlikely they'd even be able to capture an Israeli town and even if they did they're effectively going to still be out in the open... its not like the civilian population would stick around like in Iraq and Syria - its not a civil war situation, it would be a rag tag group of jihadis who happen to have some shiny new wehicles trying something that needs to be carefully planned, controlled, with no air cover etc.. its just not realistic at all.
 
Caporegime
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Ah, armchair General's at it again. Because you know we did such a stellar job in Afghanistan and Iraq right. We might have 'crushed' the Iraqi army but look how more ***** up the country is now. Frankly put it was better under Saddam's reign. Better the devil you know. You have no idea what would happen in terms of a war (civil or what not) or in terms of military strategies at the end of the day.

I've got a pretty good idea of what would happen if a bunch of amateur jihadi types attempted to do something as silly as invade Israel as is being proposed in this thread... What relevance is the state of Iraq now as far as the IDF being capable of fighting off this theoretical 'invasion'?
 
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Caporegime
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You have no idea, unless of course you are General Dowie of the IDF / US / British Army. You are not privy to any intelligence in terms of their capability apart from what is on the media and online as far as I'm aware. The mere fact you are referring to the insurgents as 'amateur jihadi types' speaks volumes really.

I can't believe I'd have to even argue this with someone... they are essentially amateur Jihadi types... they number in the tens of thousands and are largely untrained volunteers... they've got some equipment sure, they've done reasonably well in a civil war and they have some organisational structure... yes at their core there are some ex Iraqi army officers...

You don't need to be privy to any secret intelligence to realise that the IDF - which has a functioning airforce and immediate air superiority over IS, which has been able to keep a couple of other more established organisations at bay for years and which has successfully repelled attempted invasions from multiple sovereign states at once could hold off any attempted invasion...

You're seem remarkably naive to even question whether an advanced, well equipped, experienced and highly trained army with 175,000 regulars and nearly half a million reservists could hold off an invasion from militia numbering in the tens of thousands which is already fighting on several fronts stretched out across Iraq and Syria.

Hezbollah has more fighters to potentially call upon than IS... Hamas has regularly attacked the IDF... neither of them are even close to capable of launching anything other than raids... neither is IS... you don't need to be a general to realise that.
 
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You're seem remarkably naive to even question whether an advanced, well equipped, experienced and highly trained army with 175,000 regulars and nearly half a million reservists could hold off an invasion from militia numbering in the tens of thousands which is already fighting on several fronts stretched out across Iraq and Syria.

Hezbollah has more fighters to potentially call upon than IS... Hamas has regularly attacked the IDF... neither of them are even close to capable of launching anything other than raids... neither is IS... you don't need to be a general to realise that.

Hezbollah has a fighting strength estimated of around 2000 men at any given time...Hamas significantly less than that, both groups are paramilitary in nature and are politically leaning with military wings...ISIS or Islamic State, ISIL or what they call themselves when then expand again is estimated to have a field strength approaching 100,000 men operating in organised, well armed and highly trained commando structures throughout Iraq and Syria. They do include what you refer to as amateurs, however the same can be said for pretty much any conscripted or national service initiated military force in the world, including Israel. Numbers on their own don't mean too much either, penetration and effectiveness in operations do, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan illustrates that just because you have a well armed, well trained, professional army doesn't mean that you are going to be effective or successful and much of ISIS is made up of battle-hardened fighters from across several global theatres many of whom have been fighting in one war or another for over a decade or longer. Also, do not underestimate the difficulty in fighting against asymmetric tactics particularly across borders which are both fluid and under constant pressure from numerous, militant groups and interests.

For ISIS to confront Israel several other things need to happen first, they need to strengthen and stabilise their grip on Iraq both militarily and politically, they are a long way from doing either...also they need to make significant gains in Syria and create this Caliphate in reality, not idealogically as it currently stands. Then they need to suppress and/or absorb the other Islamic Jihadists occupying and operating throughout the region, Hamas being one of those who ISIS is opposed to. They need to reduce the internal power struggles with their own ranks, bring together the various factions of Al Qaeda under a single unified political and military banner and they need to convince the other Salafist states that they are not a threat to them. Their biggest obstacle is not Israel or even The West, it is their own ideology. By claiming global authority they undermine both legitimate and illegitimate Islamist Governments and Authorities in the region and beyond, even their current allies view IS with suspicion and groups such as Al Qaeda are fractious with some supporting and other outright opposing IS.

Israel will not be unduly worried while IS remains occupied in Iraq and Syria, in fact it is in Israel's interests currently as IS oppose Hamas and influence Hezbollah, particularly in Syria. Which weakens both, which benefits Israel.

However, if (or when) ISIS gain sufficient ascendancy in the region then they will potentially be a far greater threat to Israeli security than any current or historical threat it has faced. Time and events will tell, but it is naive to believe that Israel has the strength of arms to suppress such a threat easily or even effectively...as long as the above mentioned conditions are met.
 
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Caporegime
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However, if (or when) ISIS gain sufficient ascendancy in the region then they will potentially be a far greater threat to Israeli security than any current or historical threat it has faced. Time and events will tell, but it is naive to believe that Israel has the strength of arms to suppress such a threat easily or even effectively...as long as the above mentioned conditions are met.

Its a bit of a *if* really... yes no doubt if all those things occur they could become a threat to some extent. Its not necessarily likely they're even going to get a chance at any stability from which they might be able to even start to consolidate power and get to that point - their continued existence, presence is not exactly liked by the regional powers nor the west. Even then this chain of posts has stemmed from this:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26834124&postcount=1991

I'm not sure Israel need worry about an invasion any time soon.
 
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I'm not sure Israel need worry about an invasion any time soon.

Israel thought the same when they supported the Islamic groups in opposition to the secular PLO and Fatah, groups that ultimately became Hamas.

I would not dismiss IS so easily, given their exponential growth rate (estimates put it at 6000 extra fighters recruited each week) and their ability to consolidate regionally without extensive supply chains and occupation. They are a serious threat to the region, including Israel. This is why we are taking them so seriously.
 
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