Poll: Italian Grand Prix 2020, Monza - Race 8/17

[deuse]

If two teams failed - a 20% failure rate - then the system did not work. We should just be thankful this didn't happen when the situation in the pitlane was actively dangerous.

2 teams did not read what they was given by the FIA.
If they did, this would have happened.
Merc saw the mistake...but it was the guys in the UK

What a silly mistake by Merc.

Exactly, listening to post race interviews Carlos touches on this exact point. He was going to Pit and was fairly committed to doing so it was just someone in the team piped up and said not to pit as the lane was closed. He was only a few seconds behind Lewis in the end so didn't have a great amount more time for the team to make the decision.

Yep.

Direct to car marshalling already exists. It's sent by the FIA via the FOM telemetry system. I don't know if they send pit open/closed though. I expect not because otherwise this situation wouldn't happen.

It's on the FIA screen that the teams have.
Nobody at Merc or the other team looked.

Well the steering wheels already have lights linked for a yellow flag and a blue flag, it'd hardly be an impossibility to add a light for 'pitline closed' from next season as a safety improvement would it?

It's a safety protocol, if 2 cars from 2 teams have managed to miss it, then the procedure could be improved, next time there might be something genuinely 'dangerous' to encounter in the pits.

As said.

The FIA screen everything to the teams.

Even di Resta saw it on the screen.

2 teams failed to do what they was asked by the FIA.

 

[Kenai]

As said.

The FIA screen everything to the teams.

Even di Resta saw it on the screen.

2 teams failed to do what they was asked by the FIA.

Do you agree that it would be a more resilient system if the drivers could see it directly too, by way of an indication on the steering wheel like they get for yellow flags?

 

[deuse]

Do you agree that it would be a more resilient system if the drivers could see it directly too, by way of an indication on the steering wheel like they get for yellow flags?

No point.

For the last 50 years it's been ok.

But. Hamilton\Merc muck up and people want to change the world.

Where does it stop?

 

[Mr Jack]

Exactly, listening to post race interviews Carlos touches on this exact point. He was going to Pit and was fairly committed to doing so it was just someone in the team piped up and said not to pit as the lane was closed. He was only a few seconds behind Lewis in the end so didn't have a great amount more time for the team to make the decision.

Carlos was over 16s behind the Mercedes, not "only a few seconds". Mercedes realised as Hamilton entered the pits; with that extra 16s, they'd have cancelled the order. Just like the other teams who stood around awkwardly in the pit lane with their tyres as they understood what was going on.

 

[Kenai]

No point.

For the last 50 years it's been ok.

But. Hamilton\Merc muck up and people want to change the world.

Where does it stop?

An LED or two is not 'changing the world', it's extending an existing system with one extra parameter.

I couldn't give monkey's who screwed up, if it's meant to be a safety system and it can be improved, why wouldn't you improve it? They did it with yellow flags even though they had 'worked' for 50 years too.

 

[Mr Jack]

For the last 50 years it's been ok.

Those LED screens closing the pit lane have been there for 50 years!? That's impressive!

 

[deuse]

An LED or two is not 'changing the world', it's extending an existing system with one extra parameter.

I couldn't give monkey's who screwed up, if it's meant to be a safety system and it can be improved, why wouldn't you improve it? They did it with yellow flags even though they had 'worked' for 50 years too.

It does not need anything in my opinion.

This is racing and not baby sitting.
Again. Hamilton and Merc was told and shown at the conference.
Hamilton has admitted that it was his and the teams fault...but he is not asking for racing aids

Those LED screens closing the pit lane have been there for 50 years!? That's impressive!

No. People haven't balls up like sunday

 

[Mr Jack]

No. People haven't balls up like sunday

So, in other words, when you say "For the last 50 years it's been ok" you were talking balls.

 

[Kenai]

It does not need anything in my opinion.

This is racing and not baby sitting.
Again. Hamilton and Merc was told and shown at the conference.
Hamilton has admitted that it was his and the teams fault...but he is not asking for racing aids

I'm not arguing that they weren't at fault, i'm suggesting that if a system is there in the aid of safety, when you have relatively cheap simple fixes that could improve it, they should be taken.

What this weekend demonstrated is that the current system is clearly not safe enough, as it resulted in two cars entering a closed pit lane. That shouldn't be acceptable in the so called pinnacle of motorsport and should be fixed.

Maybe the culture is different where you work but if we have safety critical things go wrong, we improve them, not just say 'It was Dave's fault, he admitted it, job done, leave it all as it is'

 

[MissChief]

Yep - Waved yellows would have been enough to push the car back a few meters.

Yeh, that was a ridiculous reason for a Safety Car. Then for closing the pitlane, the fact that the pitlane was marked as closed by a red light on the outside of the track when the drivers are clearly going to be looking at the Apex and entry into the pitlane is baffling. Made for an exciting race in the end though!

Happy for Gasly to get the win, but did anyone else think to themselves how Lewis got penalised for weaving on the straights to break the tow a few years back?

Good recovery for Lewis all things considered, shocker for Bottas and Ferrari. What happened to Verstappen? It didn't get mentioned on the C4 coverage.

The track has some cut outs in the barrier for Marshals and some for cars. KMag stopped at a Marshal only cut out and the car wouldn't fit and give access to the track for the Marshals if needed again.

 

[deuse]

So, in other words, when you say "For the last 50 years it's been ok" you were talking balls.

No.
I was talking that no one made a stupid mistake like they did on sunday...simples.

I'm not arguing that they weren't at fault, i'm suggesting that if a system is there in the aid of safety, when you have relatively cheap simple fixes that could improve it, they should be taken.

What this weekend demonstrated is that the current system is clearly not safe enough, as it resulted in two cars entering a closed pit lane. That shouldn't be acceptable in the so called pinnacle of motorsport and should be fixed.

Maybe the culture is different where you work but if we have safety critical things go wrong, we improve them, not just say 'It was Dave's fault, he admitted it, job done, leave it all as it is'

So you would love a nanny culture in F1?

I'm so glad you don't watch\follow MotoGP.
You would be asking for all kinds of ****

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Where was he crying? He took responsibility, praised Gasly for the win and was super calm on the radio. Go listen to his radio with the team during the red flag and there was no crying as you put it. Once again where was he crying because like you I watched the race and he did not complain once about the penalty?

Ignore, he’s our resident troll.

 

[Kenai]

So you would love a nanny culture in F1?

I'm so glad you don't watch\follow MotoGP.
You would be asking for all kinds of ****

If your definition of 'nanny culture' is 'adding one extra indication LED', then sure. I'm not sure i'd go as far as saying adding another notification LED to the others that they already have for other flags is a nanny culture though, I think that's just you being hyperbolic to try and keep the smoke screen going over your astoundingly weak argument.

I'll leave it there before I get suckered further into your utter nonsense. I should have left it when you described a single LED as 'changing the world' in hindsight.

 

[Armageus]

So you would love a nanny culture in F1?

Nah should have just carried on using the health and safety standards from the first season in 1950 - having anything other than an immediate risk of death is clearly "nanny culture"

 

[deuse]

If your definition of 'nanny culture' is 'adding one extra indication LED', then sure. I'm not sure i'd go as far as saying adding another notification LED to the others that they already have for other flags is a nanny culture though, I think that's just you being hyperbolic to try and keep the smoke screen going over your astoundingly weak argument.

I'll leave it there before I get suckered further into your utter nonsense. I should have left it when you described a single LED as 'changing the world' in hindsight.

And what happens when Hamilton can't see the led because of the sun, and makes the same mistake.
You want a pop up screen? or block out the sun?

 

[deuse]

Nah should have just carried on using the health and safety standards from the first season in 1950 - having anything other than an immediate risk of death is clearly "nanny culture"

You would find MotoGP fun.....they are ALPHA men

 

[Armageus]

You would find MotoGP fun.....they are ALPHA men

Aside from the big inflatable suits they wear

 

[deuse]

Aside from the big inflatable suits they wear

They do walk funny when they go off

 

[CaptainRAVE]

If your definition of 'nanny culture' is 'adding one extra indication LED', then sure. I'm not sure i'd go as far as saying adding another notification LED to the others that they already have for other flags is a nanny culture though, I think that's just you being hyperbolic to try and keep the smoke screen going over your astoundingly weak argument.

I'll leave it there before I get suckered further into your utter nonsense. I should have left it when you described a single LED as 'changing the world' in hindsight.

He seems to think an LED light or radio message will cost the entirety of Mercedes annual budget. You can’t reason with that

It’s why I generally leave these threads after the race. Good for a laugh on a Monday though.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Is this the MotoGP thread? Feels like

Anyway.. back on topic.

I was actively involved in the process safety flow for F1 pit stops (I’m in health and safety) and the fact that this has happened has underlined a flaw in the system.

Using the “this is the way it’s always been” argument is childish and naive at best. Without continual improvements we’d be stuck sending children to work and canaries down mines.

Merc and Alfa were in the wrong 100%, but if there’s a way to make the system of notifying the drivers about a pit lane closure more robust then the FIA must explore it. After all, if they ignore it and next time someone gets injured there’s precedent there which will completely screw any legal defence they have.