James Cameron's 'Avatar' - The next gen of cinema

Soldato
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"Shock and awe" is bad because it's unashamedly cheesy and a poor way to reference the subtext. In fact, there is no need to mention the subtext because it's so blatantly on show that it's no longer subtext.

Cameron has lost the subtlety he displayed to such great effect in The Abyss and Aliens.

Wow! You're lucky to have already have seen it...

And the Abyss? Do you not consider it "weak, with it stereotypical and utterly predictable plot?" I mean aliens coming to earth and threatening to teach us a lesson unless we grow up? :rolleyes:


Anyway, sarcasm aside, TBH you're acting a little bit like a rebellious teenager after some attention? You're grasping at anything you can... Wait till you've seen it and then comment?
 
Soldato
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Don't really know much about this film, nor have I watched the trailer. I've read a brief plot outline and thats it. I'm trying not to get sucked into the hype, definately going to watch it in 3D somewere in the next few week :)
 

RDM

RDM

Soldato
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The special effects look impressive but to be honest it has got to the point now that they can do pretty much anything given time and processing power that impressive special effects is no longer enough. Give me some decent acting and at least a reasonable plot at least to go along with the visual eye candy.
 
Associate
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The special effects look impressive but to be honest it has got to the point now that they can do pretty much anything given time and processing power that impressive special effects is no longer enough. Give me some decent acting and at least a reasonable plot at least to go along with the visual eye candy.

This is true - we have all become so de-sensitised by VFX that it is no longer enough.
 
Soldato
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The special effects look impressive but to be honest it has got to the point now that they can do pretty much anything given time and processing power that impressive special effects is no longer enough. Give me some decent acting and at least a reasonable plot at least to go along with the visual eye candy.

Agreed... But let's remember this is Cameron who revels in the detail. He/they spent four years getting just the language right for this flick - What a geek :)

If it's just special effects etc etc then it'll be just as soulless as your typical modern day Lucas Star Wars film... But I'm hoping we have some of Cameron's depth/interest/intelligence in there... Fingers crossed...
 
Soldato
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It has nothing to do with teenage rebellion and everything to do with believing that a good movie consists of good visuals AND a good plot. It's not my fault if the average punter is happy to take one out of two. That just goes to show how far people's expectations have been lowered by the industry.

The visuals look stunning; no argument there. I just don't know if I can stand to have my intelligence insulted for 161 minutes.

I don't get these points. Why focus on the script so much? And why dedicate time typing about a film that you've decided you're not going to like?

So what if the script is flawed, you have to write generically when spending this much on a movie (the $500m or Christ knows what they've ploughed into it). Titanic would never have had the success it did without being cliched. I also don't believe expectations have been lowered by the industry.

Avatar can also only be compared to other blockbusters and even then its unfair to compare it to something like the Abyss. Its a totally different film, with something like 3000 effects shots vs. less than 50 that the Abyss had.

Also, you appear to have backtracked on the visuals, earlier you were saying they looked amateurish.

This is true - we have all become so de-sensitised by VFX that it is no longer enough.

You and I may have but younger people haven't. This film is being marketed towards kids as much as anyone else.
 
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Soldato
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Lastnight a caught an epsiode of Bones that was pretty much a hour long Avatar looks great plugathon.

I really want to see this but that was really too much.
I think the hype machine just moved up a gear.
 
Caporegime
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I don't get these points. Why focus on the script so much?

Er... because the script is an integral part of a movie? :confused:

I have yet to see a single review which has praised the script of Avatar. It seems that even the rave reviews can't bring themselves to do it; they just waffle on about the CGI and big explosions.

Meanwhile, other reviewers say...

The demand for awe starts to grind the film down after the introductory, new-car-smell period, soon left with only one-dimensional characters making predictable choices while the backgrounds flashdance to stave off dramatic inertia.

The corniest movie ever made about the white man's need to lose his identity and assuage racial, political, sexual and historical guilt.

As superbly rendered as his 3D world is, Cameron has populated it with characters who are strictly 2D. And sometimes not even that.

While visually perfect, Avatar suffers from a story that is unoriginal and a script that lacks emotional connection. However, the last 40 minutes are stunning.

A morally, historically, socially, and politically childish amalgam of Pocahontas and Ferngully.

Take away the snazzy technology and what is left? Precious little. From a writing and storytelling standpoint, Avatar is a considerable failure, not even worth a fraction of its built-in hype.

(All taken from Rotten Tomatoes).

Are you beginning to appreciate the importance of script quality?

And why dedicate time typing about a film that you've decided you're not going to like?

Because I have a right to express my opinion and it's fun to wind up pubescent fanboys? And hell, if it's OK for other people to dedicate time typing about a film they've already decided they're going to like (even before they've seen it) then turnabout is fair play.

So what if the script is flawed, you have to write generically when spending this much on a movie (the $500m or Christ knows what they've ploughed into it).

No you don't. Some of Cameron's previous movies were brilliant successes that didn't rely on cliches.

Titanic would never have had the success it did without being cliched.

Nonsense. It achieved its success because Leonardo di Caprio and Cate Blanchett were the flavour of the month amongst teenagers that year. Kids didn't go to see a good film; they went to see two Hollywood stars having sex.

I also don't believe expectations have been lowered by the industry.

LOL! This from the guy who said:

Why focus on the script so much?

z0mg the ironing!

Avatar can also only be compared to other blockbusters and even then its unfair to compare it to something like the Abyss. Its a totally different film, with something like 3000 effects shots vs. less than 50 that the Abyss had.

Why is that an unfair comparison?

Also, you appear to have backtracked on the visuals, earlier you were saying they looked amateurish.

Yes, and they did. There's a whole section in this thread where the original teaser footage was comprehensively mocked by quite a number of people. Fortunately the newer trailers look much better.

You and I may have but younger people haven't. This film is being marketed towards kids as much as anyone else.

Kids of what age, pray tell?
 
Soldato
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Er... because the script is an integral part of a movie? :confused:

Not this movie. Considering films are also a visual experience, its not suprising many of them have tired, run-of-the-mill scripts. Also, its as much to do with how a script is delivered. The other reason why it doesn't matter so much for this film is because people aren't going to see it for that reason. If you want complex script writing, there are plenty of other places to find it.

I have yet to see a single review which has praised the script of Avatar. It seems that even the rave reviews can't bring themselves to do it; they just waffle on about the CGI and big explosions.

(All taken from Rotten Tomatoes).

Are you beginning to appreciate the importance of script quality?

No, because I don't pay attention to RT. Also, anyone who doesn't already like the film is going to find reviews that side with their opinion and see what they want to see. I'll wait until its on general release to see what the majority think of it.

Because I have a right to express my opinion and it's fun to wind up pubescent fanboys? And hell, if it's OK for other people to dedicate time typing about a film they've already decided they're going to like (even before they've seen it) then turnabout is fair play.

Seems like a thankless task. I could have gone on the New Moon IMDB board and wound up all the teenage girls on there, didn't see the need though.

No you don't. Some of Cameron's previous movies were brilliant successes that didn't rely on cliches.

Yes they did, The Abyss is cliche central and the only reason it isn't loaded with effects is probably more to do with budget/technical limitations than anything. The Terminator had a completely ridiculous plot and premise, Aliens was a 'sell-out' action sequel and who can forget that pinnacle of originality that is True Lies?

If Cameron made The Abyss today, it would probably be 60% in CGI like Avatar is.

Nonsense. It achieved its success because Leonardo di Caprio and Cate Blanchett were the flavour of the month amongst teenagers that year. Kids didn't go to see a good film; they went to see two Hollywood stars having sex.

Irrelevent. Also those two actors were also relative unknowns (i.e. not Hollywood stars and it was Kate Winslet, not Cate Blanchett) at the time and people went to see a boat sink as much as anything else. Generally, people go to films to see stuff happen and people 'do' stuff.

Yes, and they did. There's a whole section in this thread where the original teaser footage was comprehensively mocked by quite a number of people. Fortunately the newer trailers look much better.

Trailers released with unfinished CGI shock. This happens all the time.

Kids of what age, pray tell?

The Finding Nemo watching crowd. There are trailers that have been made specifically for young children.
 
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Associate
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Not this movie. Considering films are also a visual experience, its not suprising many of them have tired, run-of-the-mill scripts. Also, its as much to do with how a script is delivered. The other reason why it doesn't matter so much for this film is because people aren't going to see it for that reason. If you want complex script writing, there are plenty of other places to find it.

I think 2012 completely disproves that statement.
 
Associate
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Transformers 2 & G.I. Joe disprove that statement.

But then what the **** do people expect when they go to see these movies? Also, I'm not specifically talking about 'bad' scripts, just cliched ones that resort to genre stereotypes.

Transformers 2 is well known to be an abomination of a film (which it certainly was) and once again the impressive VFX done nothing to help that so I don't see how that proves your point?
 

AGD

AGD

Soldato
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I have yet to see a single review which has praised the script of Avatar. It seems that even the rave reviews can't bring themselves to do it; they just waffle on about the CGI and big explosions.

Well despite seeming to have read many reviews you missed a positive quote about the script in one of the top reviews at rotten tomatoes. :/

In the hands of a lesser director, these awe-inspiring special effects would have overwhelmed the film. It is to Cameron's credit that the story grips and carries you along from the beginning.

And I only looked for about 5 seconds. It's very easy to take selected, negative quotes from reviews of rotten tomatoes. I could do the opposite quite easily.
 
Soldato
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Transformers 2 is well known to be an abomination of a film (which it certainly was) and once again the impressive VFX done nothing to help that ...

I couldnt have said it better myself.

Transformers2 had to be my worst dissapointment for 2009. Given the budget and resources available to them, I'm pretty sure they could've come up with a better plot. Perhaps they should've gone to the guys who make the cartoons, who I'm sure could've come up with something good during their lunch break.
 
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