Jordan Peterson thread

[ltron]

'Classical liberal' is a position commonly held by conservatives. For example, it is the default position of the Australian Liberal Party, which is a conservative/classical liberal party. Peterson might shy away from the 'conservative' label, but his political views are strongly shaped by conservatism.



That does not make him not a conservative.



I'm not so sure about that. Peterson takes a conservative position on many issues that the CLP treats very differently (e.g. immigration, and abortion). His position on marriage, trans issues, and Islamic issues is strongly conservative.



I agree that he's not alt right. But he's sure as hell no modern liberal.

These are his own positions according to him, see these videos: https://youtu.be/D5fNu1d0iJw and https://youtu.be/0oJBJc9Ou2A
Maybe he's wrong in his assessment of himself, it's certainly a matter of debate.

 

[Irish_Tom]

@Irish_Tom thanks for the response.....and unfortunately its the issue with discussing the problems of the day, as people let their biases and political way of thinking cloud their views....myself included, hence why I try my best to listen to other points of view, which is why I asked you political way of thinking.

My point of view around feeling like the enemy is solely from Social media, traditional media, online forums, mainly I will admit from the extremes of the far left, but its the extremes that seem to be driving the narrative.....not a day goes by it seems where I don't see feminists on the Good Morning Britain, for example, pushing the female narrative (I exaggerate to some degree of course)......twitter if full of extremest feminists who hate men....and lets be frank...if they wanted equality, you wouldn't call it feminism today in the west, you would call it egalitarianism and look at issues on both sides and try to resolve them to suit both, but all they are interested in is destroying masculinity and promoting female empowerment.

Just to add as well....I don't think it's a threat the west and I don't think we will become a Communist utopia, while the straight white man is sent off to the Gulags.....but you have to keep a watch on extremists on both sides.

I haven't either......but Identity politics makes me one, even if I'm not.

I always enjoy a debate with people who have different views to my own — it makes me challenge my way of thinking and forces me to refine my beliefs. If everyone involved can accept and admit their own biases, then it makes for a more honest debate. I'll reiterate what I said earlier though, just because someone holds a bias one way or the other, it doesn't necessarily make them wrong. The sad thing is, most political discussion these days descends into a mud-slinging match where anyone on the right is labelled Nazi and anyone on the left is labelled Communist (don't get me started on the "Nazis were left wing thing ). What's worse is that this polarisation has infiltrated real politics, especially in America.

I agree that you have to keep watch for extremists on both sides — there was an interesting debate on here about Nazis vs AntiFa during the whole Charlottesville riots (but that was far right vs far left, not an example of what I was just talking about above).

Going back to your points about identity politics: the first thing I would do is stop watching Good Morning Britain.

I appreciate that's a flippant remark, but it has a reasoned basis; just like newspapers have a clear bias, so to do these programmes. With the likes of Piers Morgan as an anchor, GMB positions itself towards a certain audience and the editorial team pick news items or guests that will keep that particular audience watching. Even with Susana Reid as a counter to Piers Morgan, she doesn't necessarily "balance" the show. I always think of BMG as "The Daily Mail" of breakfast TV.

Equally, social media provides a great platform for vocal minorities to get their message out but they're still just that; a minority. They may be shouting louder, but that's because most people have got better things to do with their time. I pay no more credence to these "ultra feminists" than I do to the EDL for example. I don't know about you, but I have more immediate things in my life to worry about. I'm not going to not get on a tube for fear of an Islamic terrorist blowing me up, just as I'm not going to worry about a mob of gender-neutral people chasing me down the street for being a white male.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge those extreme views and it also doesn't mean that your fears aren't real but equally, we shouldn't let the fear of those views take over our lives.

You say that identity politics makes you "the privileged oppressor...the bigot...the misogynist even if you're not one" but that's only true in the eyes of the tiny but vocal minority and it certainly doesn't define you. If you've never been called any of those things personally, have you had any experiences where people holding those views have directly impacted you? Or is it just what the media and social media have been telling you that's got you concerned?

They aren't classic Marxists, that's for sure. They are though, signed up to an ideology which is heavily influenced by Marxist power dynamics. It's not the group identifier of proletariat vs the group identifier of bourgeoisie — but instead, the oppressed vs the oppressors. Economic and political revolution has morphed into cultural and societal revolution.

Men oppress women; high melanin peoples are oppressed by low melanin ones, Islam is oppressed by other religions, heterosexuals oppress LGBTs.

It is a style of collectivism that isn't that dissimilar from what led to the disasters of the Soviets, whether the activists themselves realise it or not.

The cis-normative white heterosexual patriarchal capitalist power structures must be overthrown, comrade.

Now that is a well-crafted and clearly expressed point of view. If JP had said those words, we probably wouldn't be having this debate (or at least, we'd be having a different debate) but instead, he went off on a rant about the death of 6 million Ukrainians as if it was an inevitability.

Go on, it's a safe space, you can admit that she's your BFF in here... we already know it.

I said in my very first post that I don’t think she’s very good at interviews!

In fact, I have a problem with nearly all news presenters these days believing they are the next Paxman — very few of them have his intelligence or eloquence. When Carrie Gracie came back from China to present the Today programme, she interviewed someone and it just became a torrent of her screeching "forgive me for interrupting but…" I wanted to shout at the radio to tell her just to let the man talk!

On a more serious note, I'm completely opposed to "safe spaces", I would much rather debate opposing views than try to shut them down.

 

[francky]

I always enjoy a debate with people who have different views to my own — it makes me challenge my way of thinking and forces me to refine my beliefs. If everyone involved can accept and admit their own biases, then it makes for a more honest debate. I'll reiterate what I said earlier though, just because someone holds a bias one way or the other, it doesn't necessarily make them wrong. The sad thing is, most political discussion these days descends into a mud-slinging match where anyone on the right is labelled Nazi and anyone on the left is labelled Communist (don't get me started on the "Nazis were left wing thing ). What's worse is that this polarisation has infiltrated real politics, especially in America.

I agree that you have to keep watch for extremists on both sides — there was an interesting debate on here about Nazis vs AntiFa during the whole Charlottesville riots (but that was far right vs far left, not an example of what I was just talking about above).

Going back to your points about identity politics: the first thing I would do is stop watching Good Morning Britain.

I appreciate that's a flippant remark, but it has a reasoned basis; just like newspapers have a clear bias, so to do these programmes. With the likes of Piers Morgan as an anchor, GMB positions itself towards a certain audience and the editorial team pick news items or guests that will keep that particular audience watching. Even with Susana Reid as a counter to Piers Morgan, she doesn't necessarily "balance" the show. I always think of BMG as "The Daily Mail" of breakfast TV.

Equally, social media provides a great platform for vocal minorities to get their message out but they're still just that; a minority. They may be shouting louder, but that's because most people have got better things to do with their time. I pay no more credence to these "ultra feminists" than I do to the EDL for example. I don't know about you, but I have more immediate things in my life to worry about. I'm not going to not get on a tube for fear of an Islamic terrorist blowing me up, just as I'm not going to worry about a mob of gender-neutral people chasing me down the street for being a white male.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge those extreme views and it also doesn't mean that your fears aren't real but equally, we shouldn't let the fear of those views take over our lives.

You say that identity politics makes you "the privileged oppressor...the bigot...the misogynist even if you're not one" but that's only true in the eyes of the tiny but vocal minority and it certainly doesn't define you. If you've never been called any of those things personally, have you had any experiences where people holding those views have directly impacted you? Or is it just what the media and social media have been telling you that's got you concerned?

Indeed...balanced views are so important, which is why I worry to some degree about our Universities, where it seems even more so that only 1 point of view is accepted and any young centre or centre right person will be ostracised.

I actually tend not to watch TV that much, but my GF generally puts the TV on in the morning as we are getting ready for work and its on and the constant Feminist agenda on that show is wrong IMO...if the extreme is a minority, then they shouldn't be getting such coverage to spout their man hating garbage.....not for my sake.....but for the millions that do watch such a TV show and absorb that ideology...and whether you think its nonsense or not, it is having an effect on our society...marriage is down, birth rates are down....women are choosing working for an employer and their career over raising and building a family...which of course is more than their right to do so and I believe in equality 100%, but you also have to wonder what effect it will have on our society, when the family unit is all but destroyed and life is all about working as a single person, where upon the state swoops in to become the new head of the family with Jeremy Corbyn at the helm!

Its just my opinion.....I massively value family has been eroded by these zealots and continues to do so.

 

[VincentHanna]

Indeed...balanced views are so important, which is why I worry to some degree about our Universities, where it seems even more so that only 1 point of view is accepted and any young centre or centre right person will be ostracised.

Have you actually been to any universities? As that is not what is happening.

I can only think you would come to that conclusion by reading biased stories on the internet.

 

[francky]

Have I been to any universities? Yes of course....and my younger brother is in one along with his GF......there is a degree of it here, but I was commenting more on what is happening in the US universities (which is undeniable).....which then spills over into the rest of the world.

 

[Mr Badger]

but for the millions that do watch such a TV show and absorb that ideology...and whether you think its nonsense or not, it is having an effect on our society...marriage is down, birth rates are down....women are choosing working for an employer and their career over raising and building a family...

That's easily fixed by increasing immigration. Perhaps we should offer young migrants money to come here.

 

[terley]

Plain and simple, Peterson is a genius.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Plain and simple, Peterson is a genius.

I don’t think there’s any denying he’s that, pretty sure he’s said his IQ is 140+

I agree with near enough all of his viewpoints but it took some critical thinking to get there, when I first came about his videos I would just take everything he said and say to myself “Well that’s obvious” but when you analyse what he’s telling you, even just the “Clean your room, bucko” it starts becoming apparent how much he understands the human psychology at near enough every level.

 

[coolsurfer]

So what you're saying is????????

 

[francky]

That's easily fixed by increasing immigration. Perhaps we should offer young migrants money to come here.

As long as they have the same/similar culture and values....why not?

Not sure that policy would go down well though mind you.

 

[slackrob]

Thanks for the vid, didn't catch it air originally. Found it an excellent watch,the points made by him make you endeavour to find what's going on in my own head .

 

[Surfer]

Cathy Newman showing her intelect... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNMlKgh-rjE

(ive still not worked out how to put vids on this new forum lol)

what.... the actual.....juust wow....there are no words...

regarding the interview with Jordan Peterson..well she was shown up to be completely vacant and devoid of depth and understanding of what real equality is. This isnt the first c4 interview that has been completely ballsed up by the interviewer (Krishnan Guru-Murthy again and again and again).... it wont be the last...they are dredging the crud at the bottom of the barrel since paxman and snow went out to pasture.

What i appreciate about JP is his intellectual willingness to combat the entitledness of the SJW ********* (why is s n o w flake censored ocuk??) culture. And we certainly need someone to keep fighting against that nefarious influence.

 

[kwerk]

She just seems like a female Jeremy Paxman wannabe. I can picture her sitting at home studying his old videos on youtube, scribbling down notes and then practicing it on her cats. "So Fluffikins, what you're saying is..."

 

[Irish_Tom]

Snip!
Its just my opinion.....I massively value family has been eroded by these zealots and continues to do so.

I find it interesting that you attribute the decline of family values to feminist zealotry (ok, that’s a bit of an oversimplification of your post).

I get what you mean about more women are now focusing on their careers, but as the child of two career-driven parents who have stayed together and (I think) have great family values, I believe it is more than possible for women to have a career and a family (maybe I’m biased).

The “decline of family values” as you call it is a very complex topic (possibly for another thread) and I don’t think it can be simplified to “the emancipation of women = worse family outcomes”.

 

[Ayahuasca]

 

[Judgeneo]

I find it interesting that you attribute the decline of family values to feminist zealotry (ok, that’s a bit of an oversimplification of your post).

I get what you mean about more women are now focusing on their careers, but as the child of two career-driven parents who have stayed together and (I think) have great family values, I believe it is more than possible for women to have a career and a family (maybe I’m biased).

The “decline of family values” as you call it is a very complex topic (possibly for another thread) and I don’t think it can be simplified to “the emancipation of women = worse family outcomes”.

Agreed, it certainly can't be simplified to that alone. It does play a part though, and thats not 100% a bad thing, we want women who can thrive in the workplace to do so and not be hamstrung by the need to fulfil a traditional role of wife.

What feminist activists have done however, is sell the notion that you can get sufficient fulfilment in your life from your career, and that it is ok, or indeed right, to sideline family to achieve this. This is wrong for the vast majority of people, male or female. Women unfortunately have a harder time of it because of the decline of fertility with age. Most people find their career advancement slowing down massively in their 30's or 40's for obvious reasons, and with that slowdown comes decreased fulfilment. A woman who decided to sideline family for career may now seek fulfilment elsewhere and become embittered that their options for family life have diminished fairly drastically, much more so than the equivalent man.

 

[randomshenans]

I do really enjoy watching his interviews, he's a very good speaker and aligns very much with my thinking.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

My misses has finally had enough of working full time and feels like she's missing out. She sees our daughter for about 5 minutes in the morning and 90 mins each night 5 days a week and even works one in three sats so is looking at part time options. The money aspect worries me tbh but I think it's just something we're going to have to manage with. Nursery bills ending can't come soon enough.

 

[VincentHanna]

My misses has finally had enough of working full time and feels like she's missing out. She sees our daughter for about 5 minutes in the morning and 90 mins each night 5 days a week and even works one in three sats so is looking at part time options. The money aspect worries me tbh but I think it's just something we're going to have to manage with. Nursery bills ending can't come soon enough.

Cool, What does Jordan Peterson think of that?

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Cool, What does Jordan Peterson think of that?

It was related to the post two above mine.