Justify a custom loop

[JonJ678]

Closed loop in the context of watercooling almost always means no T line, no reservoir. It's filled by breaking the tubing somewhere, dipping both ends in a tank of water and running the pump until the bubbles are gone. You then close the join while still submerged. It performs well but not much over a T line and is stressful to set up.

If you were to be pedantic, this is not a thermodynamically closed system because it exchanges heat and electricity with the surroundings, and loses water through the permeable tubing. So your definition of closed meaning has a tap, but basically full contradicts either of the standard definitions.

Care to reply to any of the points raised above, or are you retreating?

 

[moremoney]

Closed loop in the context of watercooling almost always means no T line, no reservoir. It's filled by breaking the tubing somewhere, dipping both ends in a tank of water and running the pump until the bubbles are gone. You then close the join while still submerged. It performs well but not much over a T line and is stressful to set up.

If you were to be pedantic, this is not a thermodynamically closed system because it exchanges heat and electricity with the surroundings, and loses water through the permeable tubing. So your definition of closed meaning has a tap, but basically full contradicts either of the standard definitions.

Care to reply to any of the points raised above, or are you retreating?

Of course i will not retreat.

I agree with you entirely.
But...........you can make a better performing closed loop than the H50 yourself.



All you need to do is seal the submerged break.

Ah, i think you have already said this when i read back.

Now the tubing has got me wondering, how can they stop the evaporation long enough to guarentee the h50 for 2 years.

PS, you can remove the tap when sealed.


Have you ever plumbed in a washing machine, whereby you circumvent the water flow

 

[JonJ678]

Happy to hear it

Sure. There's a (swiftec?)block available which includes cpu block and a ddc, this combined with a 120 radiator would be rather similar to the ddc. Won't cost £190 though. More effort to fill though you could easily plumb a T partway along. Alternatively you could connect a ddc directly to the radiator with a threaded male to male, which would be less pretty. It's something I'm thinking of doing with my loop to save space and counter vibration but haven't got around to yet.

Regarding sealed systems, you might be interested in this thread. Very similar idea.

I'm pretty certain they don't stop evaporation. No way they could. There's just enough of a reservoir involved that it'll make the distance before it starts dragging air around the loop.

Cheers

 

[moremoney]

Happy to hear it

Sure. There's a (swiftec?)block available which includes cpu block and a ddc, this combined with a 120 radiator would be rather similar to the ddc. Won't cost £190 though. More effort to fill though you could easily plumb a T partway along. Alternatively you could connect a ddc directly to the radiator with a threaded male to male, which would be less pretty. It's something I'm thinking of doing with my loop to save space and counter vibration but haven't got around to yet.

Regarding sealed systems, you might be interested in this thread. Very similar idea.

I'm pretty certain they don't stop evaporation. No way they could. There's just enough of a reservoir involved that it'll make the distance before it starts dragging air around the loop.

Cheers

Sent email.

See no windup here.

 

[Hotwired]

There is a swiftech pump/block unit available which is functionally identical to the corsair (Apogee Drive) but they CBA making new brackets for it so it only fits 775, 754, 939, 940, AM2 and F sockets.

Really annoying since it would give a custom mini loop option competitive with the H50 for new processors.

Still, you could always fab a bracket for it

 

[JonJ678]

Ah, does that mean I've justified water cooling?

What are you intending on cooling, just the processor? If so, which processor (affects required fans/radiator)? What case are you using (affects which radiators can fit)? Finally, how do you feel about second hand?

As a generic specification, a ddc with aftermarket top is fairly easily available for 50 quid. You probably want a 240 radiator, I'm fairly sure mine was £50 second hand but I can't seem to find the email to confirm it. An ek supreme lt is £25 new and very good. That would be pump/block/radiator for £125 if you managed to find the same deals I did, tubing and barbs at a tenner and you're done.

If buying new it can be done for a similar price but component quality will suffer, you'll end up with an xspc pump instead of a laing, a 120 or thin 240, and probably the same cpu block as above anyway. I went for second hand radiators and blocks, new pump and tubing as a compromise. No regrets

 

[moremoney]

I never needed anyone to justify watercooling, i have always wanted it.

I just wanted to justify the massive price diffrence from custom to H50,{never happened so far}.

See my username.

I want the best performance money can buy within reason.

But i don't want to waste money.

£150-£200 to cool my cpu, with a swiftech GTZ.

It's the nuts and bolts parts that people who have never done it before need help with.

 

[moremoney]

With reguard to your sealed sys you must start by getting rid of the res.

Will look through the whole thread tomorrow.

 

[JonJ678]

The biggest novice stumbling blocks seem to be matching tubing to barbs, fixating on using feser one, not leak testing. I'm sure there's more but those are the first ones to come to mind. Tubing is named by inner diameter, and barbs by outer diameter of the barb. Given tubing goes over the barb I hope it's clear why. Feser 1 tends to fill blocks with separated out dye, deionised water is a tenth the price and doesn't do this.

The suggestion in that thread features a valve between reservoir and loop. I'll probably be more helpful tomorrow, bed time I think. Catch you later man

 

[moremoney]

I'll be here dude, lookin for help and advice.

 

[Hotwired]

Woffle.

That Apogee Drive I mentioned earlier...

JUST the pump/block itself costs about 15% more than the H50 which is pump/block/reservoir/tubing and its mostly out of stock in this country except for annoying prices.

However... It would be a fairly simple hack to replace or cut the tubing on an H50 and install a T at some point. All the price saving of an H50 and the fact that it can't be maintained can be thrown out the window.

Not worth it within the warranty period ofc unless you really wanted to.

After all, isn't the point of watercooling the fact that you're willing to get a bit creative.

 

[Bubo]

The only bit which can really "go wrong" in a water cooling loop is the pump, everything else is pretty much going to last forever, and the bits which may be periodic cleaning i.e. blocks, can easily be seen to, in a custom loop. The one obvious disadvantage of the H50 is that you can't maintain any part of it, if the pump goes outside warranty then you are stuffed, if you suspect the block may be getting a bit tarnished internally you cant clean it. With a custom loop if the pump goes you can just replace the pump. OK if we are talking a high quality Laing pump its not far off the cost of a complete new H50, but of course anyone using a Laing in a custom loop is likely to have spent more money for a better performing loop rather than an air cooler equivalent and so has already justified their outlay. The H50 hasn't been around long enough to establish their reliability compared to a Laing but personally speaking I think it would be a risk to get one and expect if to last for years and years, especially with zero opportunity for maintaining the thing. When I look at it like that then it really does look like its is no more than an air cooler replacement, since it seems these also have to be upgraded as years go by with fast processors, where your average well invested sensible custom loop will likely have years of extra capacity waiting to be used.

 

[moremoney]

I would now like to make it clear,,,,,,i am not asking which is better..........

I know a custom loop is better, my question is.................can you justify the expense of a custom cpu loop, over a Corsair H50 which only costs £60.

@Bubo, nice block of text there.
No way will i read that without help.

Please add some spaces between lines.

 

[Bubo]

You being serious? Then again you have only had 4 hours sleep.

 

[Hotwired]

The one obvious disadvantage of the H50 is that you can't maintain any part of it, if the pump goes outside warranty then you are stuffed, if you suspect the block may be getting a bit tarnished internally you cant clean it.

You have seen the bottom of an H50 block?

http://nvidiathepoweroffuture.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/corsair_h50_1.jpg

I could call a lunchbox a sealed unit but pull on the lid and it's open. The H50 is a sealed unit until you take a screwdriver to the very standard screws.

You have two years of warranty which is a pretty decent period and after that you can hack, maintain and modify it as you please. There's no real downside to it beside the price over aircooling and to offset that it has more flexibility in positioning and use of space.

If the pump goes out of warranty then so be it, you said yourself a pump for a custom CPU loop is almost the price of a new H50.

 

[Geckovich]

The reason I have a custom loop is because I'm a quiet computing freak.

My rig is hardly a slouch (3.8 quad and gtx280) yet the loudest thing in it is a laptop HDD. The entire rig is quieter than my external HDD.

 

[moremoney]

You being serious? Then again you have only had 4 hours sleep.

Are you serious?, i don't have time to sleep.

About midnight tonight is my bedtime.

Maybe you are right, am i getting delirious.

 

[oggiet]

My CPU loop ...... running at 4.3GHz ... 1.44V ... idle at 34C and load at 73C. No way I would be able to run it if it wasnt cusom loop

 

[Greebo]

Custom loop - 2 reasons:

1. Silence - I can surf/word process with all the fans switched off in peace and quiet as the system is good enough to run passively.

2. Overclocking - I doubt I wouldn;t have got anywhere near my 4.6Ghz 24/7 stable or my hwbot 4.9Ghz score without a custom built watercooling and same applies to my graphics card which stays below 40C with the clocks in my sig.

As for whether it was worth it? Yes, I bought quality components 2nd hand and the main cpu loop only cost £100, the full EK block for the grpahics card cost £60 though and tbh, apart from the silence, overclocking wise that was not worth it.

 

[MikeTimbers]

I don't get threads like this. Value for money is completely personal. I bought a Little River White Water for £75 when it came out and it's now an expensive paper weight. But the Lian Li PC60 I bought seven years ago is still in use.

The H50 is a £60 component. If that floats your boat then go buy it but no-one else's "value" opinion is relevant.