Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by randomshenans, 20 Nov 2019.
Perhaps he's tried?
Every generation thinks the next one is useless... Your dad probably thinks your a spaz too.
Lol at some of these comments. Some of your parents / grandparents probably thought you were lucky, lazy bums who had it well easy for not working down the mines blahblahblah. Generally children are only as good as the parenting.
I joined this forum in 2003 when I had just turned 16 when I was speccing up my first full custom build after convincing my parents to part fund the project for Christmas that year. Since 1999 I'd been using the internet (as crap and slow as it was back then) to learn how to fix, upgrade and then overclock my previous shop-built PC. I never broke anything, but had a nightmare with software issues and getting my head around drivers and windows configuration.
My father had no knowledge of these things so couldn't help if he wanted to (I had no interest in his car, and I regret not learning about that now as I would have gained some useful knowledge there) and I self-taught myself everything. He did however show an interest in what I'd learned and seemed to be proud that I'd figured it out, my mother less interested and only arsed about how I spent so much time messing about with computers instead of out socialising.... As someone mentioned earlier it was because I was curious and also wanted to play PC games, so had no choice but to learn. I also had to convince my parents I knew what I was doing so that they would give me cash to buy components instead of buying me stuff I didn't want for birthdays/Christmas (if I asked for an ATi X300 they'd be like "wtf is that, we aren't getting you that, you can have Lego/coal").
Some people cannot be bothered to help themselves though. This I learned when almost every computer I touched that wasn't mine would be riddled with bloatware, spyware, pop ups galore, fans stuck because of the amount of dust ingested from being on the carpet and not opened and cleaned since purchased...
"oh noes my photos are all gone?!", "well just restore from your backup", "my back, what?!"
"I just bought this amazing computer from Time with 4GB RAM, 1500mhz cpu and 500GB HDD but it won't play Max Payne?!?!?" "well, it doesn't have a gfx card..." "do I need one? This was the best PC in the shop, the salesman said so".
If people aren't interested then they will remain ignorant. It isn't laziness, just have no curiosity in the subject or the "need" to learn.
Aye, in some ways computers back in the 90's were actually simpler than some modern ones.
For example I still have zero experience with water cooling and would need to research it before I touched it - and I was rebuilding computers when I was in my early teens, when the internet wasn't around, and when every expansion card had dipswitches (the joys of "Super IO" expansion cards with DMA3 IDE connections, fast serial ports and bi-directional parallel ports being added to a machine that might or might not have had built in IO ports)...
A large part of how and why I could do it, was my father encouraged me to try it (he had no idea), we bought some books and basically said "if it breaks so be it".
My first PC upgrade was fitting a 2mb expansion module to an Apricot IIs, a process that involved opening the case, removing the drive bay assembly, and basically have the case structure to get to the memory slot that was buried away We also got that machine to take a CD drive and IDE drive despite being told by PC World and a local company it wouldn't work..(MFM hard drive).
My second big one was a rebuild of an auction bought PC with no paperwork (got that from a 486sx to a DX4 100).
The thing is, I would never have tried that without the encouragement from my father, who had taken the time to teach me how to deal with mechanical stuff, stripping it down and fixing it, and to a lesser extent one of my neighbours and uncle's who got me into electronics and helped me learn how to think things through when it came to building/stripping equipment and troubleshooting.
Expecting anyone to go from never having worked on fixing or building a PC to troubleshooting a problem with the water cooling is realy quite a daft idea.
Which all reminds me, my brother has been bugging me to show him how to build a PC
Probably something that isn't helping is it seems kids don't seem to be taught to be inquisitive as much any more - far more often they get participation awards for going through the motions of an activity instead of the end product of building something being the reward.
Definitely though it seems each generation is less inclined to spend the time to teach the next one the basics, etc. but everyone has to start somewhere and/or find their entry into a subject - unless someone is an incredibly motivated self-starter by nature people generally can't just jump out of bed and carry out an activity they don't have the knowledge to even know where to start.
Certainly have seen a change overall in the school leaver age new starters at work over the last 10 years or so.
It's the mispronunciation that's tickled me, mate.
I've noticed something similar to a degree, and to my mind at least part of it is the drop in home ownership and thus people doing DIY repairs etc (same with cars where you used to be able to most of the repairs yourself), as things like watching and helping a parent to do things like change taps, put up shelving etc all encourages you to learn how things go together and give you some confidence to try it yourself, and then apply the same principles to other projects that might be completely different, but the basics are always the same (think about it, work it out, keep notes/remember how something came apart if doing a repair..).
These days a lot of people are growing up never having been introduced to what are quite basic skills, because for example if you've always lived in a rented house where you couldn't hang a picture let alone put up shelving, and a lot of the old practical hobbies have died out (woodworking/metalworking etc) either due to lack of interest, or often in part because there isn't room to do it.
Another thing that probably doesn't help, is that back in the day (god I sound old!), things were made so they could be repaired, which again got you into the habit of learning how to do things, I have memories of helping my dad at quite a young age repair a washing machine - my hands were small enough to reach in and hold something and going back even just to the 90's you could, and did repair a lot of household stuff (again, memories of helping my dad repair power tools, including learning how to ID the part from the diagram and work out how to get to it*).
I think my dad's generation was probably the last where you realistically had to know how to do a lot of repairs yourself, and more importantly could because since the 80's the idea of "user serviceable" is largely gone, and since the 10's it's pretty much been the explicit policy of a lot of companies that the user should not and shall not do any serving of their stuff, including replacing things like batteries.
One of my neighbours is a great guy, but when he moved in (aged about 30), he literally couldn't put up a shelf and had never (as far as i can tell) done any practical stuff around the house, once we'd helped him a few times he's starting to pick up a good set of DIY skills, but it required someone to show him/help him do it at first and the loan of some tools (spending £100 to get the tools to put up shelves once tends to put people off, but so does spending £25 on a cheap drill and rubbish bits that don't work well**).
It's one of the reasons if someone I know asks how to do something, even if I'm unwell, if I can I'll tell them, or if need be go with them to help the first couple of times, it's also one of the reasons I really like the idea of the Raspberry Pi etc, not so much for their use as a computer, but as a way to get people thinking logically about electronics (the old Maplin "pocket money" kits taught me a lot that's paid off many times over the years).
*A lesson that has worked well with garden tools - I think my petrol strimmers etc are the only tools I've seen in years that came with parts diagrams and the expectation you should be able to repair it, not throw it out when a 5p gasket dies (although I was also able to find the part number and a diagram for my mower to replace the rubber gasket that controlled the carb)..
**We've pretty much swapped completely over to Bosch and DeWalt bits from memory, I spent about 20 minutes trying to drill a bit of metal with a "metal bit" from a cheap set, lost my patience and popped down to Screwfix and picked up a £5 bit (the same as for the entire set of metal bits I'd been using), and it did the next 3 holes in about two minutes each.
You dumb down the schools you get dumbed down kids.
Schools taught me nothing except how to study for exams.
I learnt everything of use for my current job in IT from internet forums :/
School only trains you to pass exams for government stats.
I find it funny the "older generation" moan about kids being lazy. The same people who get made redundant in their 40's, 50's and don't know what to do with themselves because they did the same job since they left school and nothing else.
Yet these lazy kids come out of school knowing how to code and make more money than them by doing less
I'm phoning social services...
Right, firstly you need to understand that not everyone is the same.
My dad and the bloke 2 doors down can both strip a car engine right down, clean it and rebuild it. I can understand the theory but probably couldn't do it on my own. My friend Ari can speak 5 different eastern languages fluently. I can speak 1 and swear in a few. I can strip computers, troubleshoot problems and even at work where we deal with database issues I am normally the one that has the gut feelings regarding issues that others wouldn't think of.
We all have areas of interest, just because you can do something someone else can't it doesn't make them a spaz.
Secondly, if your kids don't have the ability to investigate and research how to fix anything that's completely on you. Even my 4 and 7 year old kids can use google voice search on different topics to see how things work. It has nothing to do with schools, it's the parents who are responsible for making their kids decent adults that can listen, think and process any information passed to them.
Really? Alongside all the standard subjects I learned woodwork, metalwork, car/bike maintenance, DIY and cooking. Never took a single exam in any of those.
My 5 year old daughter has worked out how to turn on youtube on the tv and as she can read, find whatever she wants. Her and my 3 year old son always want to help out when i'm fixing things or doing diy. They love helping out, but do tend to gravitate towards the sharpest/most dangerous tool. At 15 i can guess what they're really into (or want to be into).
Not for me in the 90's, every subject was graded and they still are now.
Basic Maths, English Science, yeah great. The skills I have now, I taught myself through experiences outside of the education system.
A lot of the younger teenagers that I teach don't even know how to use email, install basic software on Windows and are generally unwilling to fiddle about with software to work it out. It's very surprising but makes sense as they've grown up using touch screen devices where everything is super user friendly.
Can blame Apple for that
Enter your name and password. Everything else is done for you.
A RasPi will learn 'em
Harsh, but fair.
There is a definite move towards a more disposable culture these days, and things either don't last or can't be kept going the same. unfortunately it's at a design level because the focus is on making things cheaply and quickly rather than making them serviceable, even those of us who aren't afraid to crack something open to have a go at fixing it can't do it because it's not easily disassembled and even if it was it requires parts that aren't available or in the case of most electronic gadgets a degree in electronic engineering and a lot of time to figure out what the hell is actually wrong with it.
perfect example- i'm having trouble with my router at the minute, it's very slow between devices on the network and i have no idea what's caused it, there's been no hardware changes and aside from re-setting it when the problem started i haven't messed with the setup.
problem is how do you fix that? is it a programming issue? is it hardware? i don't have a degree in networking, electronic engineering or software engineering, sure i could open it up, see a bunch of circuit boards full of stuff that's too small to even see properly which looks exactly the same when it's broken as when it's functioning perfectly. even if i did have the knowledge i'd need to sit there for ages with a test meter checking every single connection and component to ensure it's functioning properly. i can't just replace the board either because funnily enough they don't make them as spares. so what option does that leave you but to just replace the whole thing?
now that's a very specific example but it's not alone- washing machine's dead? well it's not like you can pull open a clockwork mechanism, see a broken spring, buy a spare from the supplier and be done.
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