Soldato
The whole point of watercooling is performance and or silence over air. Having watercooling for the sake of it or with no gains over air is pointless. If you are going to watercool then do it properly.
Lazy water-cooling?
- Thread starter Bugblatter
- Start date
Even with that though, watercooling was never intended to be quieter than air cooling. It was done for performance. Cathar for example, never spent years studying thermo physics, fluid dynamics and researching and developing waterblocks to make systems quieter. He did it to allow higher overclocking by allowing CPU's to run cooler, so allowing higher voltages etc.
I for one would not be chuffed if i had spent years designing and building something to perform only for it to get stuck into a system running stock speeds and making no noise. That would be like buying a race horse and keeping it in a stable for the rest of it's life imo.
I just think that overclocking and silence do not belong in the same sentence tbh, heat is a byproduct of overclocking which needs to be dealt with, and dealing with it properly involves a degree of noise.
I for one would not be chuffed if i had spent years designing and building something to perform only for it to get stuck into a system running stock speeds and making no noise. That would be like buying a race horse and keeping it in a stable for the rest of it's life imo.
I just think that overclocking and silence do not belong in the same sentence tbh, heat is a byproduct of overclocking which needs to be dealt with, and dealing with it properly involves a degree of noise.
Soldato
Look at the PA160. A degree of perfomance and designed with quietness in mind. The reserator is quiet, but not for performance, not my cup of tea but i can see why people buy it. There is room for quietness to co-exist with performance, but for MAJOR overclocking then there is always going to be noise.
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- 13 May 2003
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weescott said:
Yep, and it's the and/or bit that's crucial. Yes if there was no benefit over air then it'd be pointless. But even a low-end W/C setup has one major benefit over air and that's silence.
I know this place isn't called pindrop.co.uk but plenty of people, including me, are far more interested in a quiet system than an overclocked one. And if we can do a little overclocking at the same time then cool, but it's not a requirement.
Some of us don't want a racehorse; we want a comfortable ride
Now where are my slippers...
Soldato
i run a fairly high performance kit thats quiet...
BIP3, 12cm Yate Loons @ 5v
Dual DDC
Cascade CPU Block
NV78 GPU Block
BUT, its also a bit of hassle...
if you want no hassle, and just silence, why not get some really quiet fans and put em on a Scythe Ninja, and get a AS GPU HSF ???
BIP3, 12cm Yate Loons @ 5v
Dual DDC
Cascade CPU Block
NV78 GPU Block
BUT, its also a bit of hassle...
if you want no hassle, and just silence, why not get some really quiet fans and put em on a Scythe Ninja, and get a AS GPU HSF ???
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 43
i've done the whole quiet-air-cooling thing, my server's air-cooled and is pretty damned quiet. Thing is it also runs pretty warm, which is ok as it's not pushed hard but I wouldn't want my gaming system running that warm.
And the biggest problem with air-cooling is that unless you have a duct and a HS that's designed to have air sucked through it (and there aren't many that I know of) the heat isn't taken straight out of the case and tends to warm up the northbridge and gfx card. With water-cooling the inside of the case is far cooler even without much air going through it, in fact the only parts that really need much airflow are the harddrives. Before I got the Zalman I had a problem with the northbridge overheating when I was gaming and I had to turn the fans right up. Afterwards it was just never a problem because it wasn't getting blasted by hot air from the CPU.
And the biggest problem with air-cooling is that unless you have a duct and a HS that's designed to have air sucked through it (and there aren't many that I know of) the heat isn't taken straight out of the case and tends to warm up the northbridge and gfx card. With water-cooling the inside of the case is far cooler even without much air going through it, in fact the only parts that really need much airflow are the harddrives. Before I got the Zalman I had a problem with the northbridge overheating when I was gaming and I had to turn the fans right up. Afterwards it was just never a problem because it wasn't getting blasted by hot air from the CPU.
Soldato
Hi bugblatter,
Late entry but here goes.....
Its not a restrictive RAD at all. Its mounted on the back using a 120mm Swiftech 'Radbox' which, in my opinion, are a stroke of genius. judging by some of the posts on this thread, the guys here really know what they are talking about and I'm sure most of them will also opted for an externally mounted radiator (be it on the back or on top of the case) due to the simple fact that it gets hot as 'part of it's job). Why mount internally, closer to the very components you are trying to keep cool?
My rig (in the pics) is running an FX57 at 3.2Ghz at 30 degrees idle and around 35 degrees under load (bear in mind thats in this hot weather we're having - its idled at 22 all winter) This is an extremely respectable overclock and it runs extremely quietly due to the integrated controll board and software for the pump and fans - profiles can easily be set.
The thermaltake would not achieve this at all and is much noisier.
One thing I think has been missed of this thread is how long the watercooling system will last you. If this is your first adventure into watercooling, you may 'get the bug' (so to speak) and decide you want to venture into the overclocking world. With the Asetek, and the kit that the guys are discussing here, you can easily upgrade pumps, reservoirs, radiators and blocks. With a pre assembled in a case system, you're stuck with the manufacturer's case design which in turn limits the size and number of wc components in the loop.
As some of the guys have said, there is no such thing as decent, "Lazy" watercooling - it goes without saying that we are dealing with water and electricity in a confined space here and if you do not want to spend time carefully planning, measuring, leaktesting and monitoring kit then this is probably not for you.
Alternatively, you could opt for an Alphacool pre filled kit for about £70 but it will be no quieter or cooler than a decent HSF such as the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro for AMD or Freezer 7 Pro for Intel. (about £17) Which clearly renders watercooling in this case, utterly pointless.
Generally speaking, the advice from the guys in this thread is rock solid and I can tell from the technical knowledge voiced in their opinions that they've been doing this for years. They will have all made the mistakes I and everyone else has made when watercooling and learned from them - which will save you a lot of hassle and money. Believe me, there's nothing worse than coming back from having a brew to a smoldering quagmire where your PC used to be. lol
Hope this helps
Best Regards
AndyOCUK
Tech Dept
Late entry but here goes.....
Its not a restrictive RAD at all. Its mounted on the back using a 120mm Swiftech 'Radbox' which, in my opinion, are a stroke of genius. judging by some of the posts on this thread, the guys here really know what they are talking about and I'm sure most of them will also opted for an externally mounted radiator (be it on the back or on top of the case) due to the simple fact that it gets hot as 'part of it's job). Why mount internally, closer to the very components you are trying to keep cool?
My rig (in the pics) is running an FX57 at 3.2Ghz at 30 degrees idle and around 35 degrees under load (bear in mind thats in this hot weather we're having - its idled at 22 all winter) This is an extremely respectable overclock and it runs extremely quietly due to the integrated controll board and software for the pump and fans - profiles can easily be set.
The thermaltake would not achieve this at all and is much noisier.
One thing I think has been missed of this thread is how long the watercooling system will last you. If this is your first adventure into watercooling, you may 'get the bug' (so to speak) and decide you want to venture into the overclocking world. With the Asetek, and the kit that the guys are discussing here, you can easily upgrade pumps, reservoirs, radiators and blocks. With a pre assembled in a case system, you're stuck with the manufacturer's case design which in turn limits the size and number of wc components in the loop.
As some of the guys have said, there is no such thing as decent, "Lazy" watercooling - it goes without saying that we are dealing with water and electricity in a confined space here and if you do not want to spend time carefully planning, measuring, leaktesting and monitoring kit then this is probably not for you.
Alternatively, you could opt for an Alphacool pre filled kit for about £70 but it will be no quieter or cooler than a decent HSF such as the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro for AMD or Freezer 7 Pro for Intel. (about £17) Which clearly renders watercooling in this case, utterly pointless.
Generally speaking, the advice from the guys in this thread is rock solid and I can tell from the technical knowledge voiced in their opinions that they've been doing this for years. They will have all made the mistakes I and everyone else has made when watercooling and learned from them - which will save you a lot of hassle and money. Believe me, there's nothing worse than coming back from having a brew to a smoldering quagmire where your PC used to be. lol
Hope this helps
Best Regards
AndyOCUK
Tech Dept
Last edited:
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 43
Thanks Andy. Sounds as though that's lazy-ish...gonna wait for reviews of the new W/C cases and kits that are being released shortly 
I've been using a Zalman Reserator for around three years now and apart from having to be careful of the tubes and top it up every now and then it's been pretty damned lazy. I was bloody careful when I put it together and leak-tested it thoroughly before switching it on, but since then I've not really worried about it much.
Liquid-cooling for the masses is coming, the trends are pretty clear. It may be a long time before your mum buys a liquid-cooled rig from Dell, but it's certainly becoming more mainstream for people building their own systems. It's becoming less Heath Robinson and more fit-it-and-forget-it...just not quite quickly enough for me
I've been using a Zalman Reserator for around three years now and apart from having to be careful of the tubes and top it up every now and then it's been pretty damned lazy. I was bloody careful when I put it together and leak-tested it thoroughly before switching it on, but since then I've not really worried about it much.
Liquid-cooling for the masses is coming, the trends are pretty clear. It may be a long time before your mum buys a liquid-cooled rig from Dell, but it's certainly becoming more mainstream for people building their own systems. It's becoming less Heath Robinson and more fit-it-and-forget-it...just not quite quickly enough for me
Soldato
lol, like your style - yeah you're right - like most things in computing ther's always a compromise between speed, cooling performance and noise. Just didn't want you to waste your time and money on something you'd be disappointed with in a pre built/ filled kit. The best example was Gigabyte's last offering. Custom pc magazine reviewed it and it cost about £79 and came pre assembled. Gigabyte totally made pillocks of themselves with it because is cooled the CPU 4 degrees WARMER than their own current power G Heatsink fan costing just £30. It was also noiser and more difficult to fit as well as, obviously, being twice the price and a poorer cooler. Absolutely laughable I'm sure you'll agree. The alphacool kits (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Alphacool.html) particularly the Answer 240 are almost as good as an asetek, swiftech or custom made (e.g. dangerden) but a darn site better than any thermaltake or gigabyte kit currently available. That said, if you want a simple, low maintainance kit that's extremely quiet and overclocking is not of any interest to you, you'll have to look damn hard to better the Zalman Reserator (which you are already familiar with.)
Best Regards
AndyOCUK
OCUK Tech Dept
Best Regards
AndyOCUK
OCUK Tech Dept
Soldato
The Alphacool blocks are reported to be better than the Swiftech Apogee blocks and the rads IIRC are the same model but the swiftech kit has a better pump. Take your pick.