London Bridge Incident

Six6siX · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:34

Considering this is a technology focused forum, the lack of understanding shown by certain people in this discussion around cyber security and encryption and how utterly essential it is in today's world is worrying.

stewski · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:35

delta0 said:
You don't need to monitor everyone. Just those that get flagged. Then they are easier to monitor

Then why does the snoopers charter give the Government access to the aggregate internet behaviour of all citizens with virtually zero judicial oversight!

Rroff · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:35

Aedus said:
I'm sure it'll be very difficult for someone to create a messaging app and distribute the APK.

Meanwhile everyone else has to have their privacy invaded.

Its pretty trivial to encode a message into what looks like a normal block of text.

Nasher · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:35

adolf hamster said:
oh god we've got onto the encryption argument again, it's getting pretty tedious explaining the very simple premise that terrorism, which existed and indeed thrived before the internet, is not going to magically stop because everybody's credit card details and porn habits are on a government database.

internet based blackmail- now that's going to go through the roof when said credit card details and porn viewing habits get hacked/leaked/"lost" by the government, who's history of data security is absolutely definitely 100% impeccable yes sir!

Or more likely they pay some contractor clowns who love to screw up all the time (like G4S or Fujitsu) to handle it, who then get hacked without actually knowing about it.

PapaLazaru · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:35

Matteh said:
Banning knives doesn't go far enough. I vote for a full cutlery ban.

Apart from sporks. They're just too useful

stewski · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:38

sigma said:
I think we should ban knives.

If we are making silly statements to prove a point, lets legalise individuals owning rocket launchers and nukes, no?
So we agree weapons are regulated and are arguing over the level of regulation.

balky12 · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:38

scorza said:
I never said the police were the problem here. The fact that people had to wait eight minutes for the sort of police who can actually deal with this situation is. I'm sure it is an impressive achievement to get those police officers from wherever they were to London Bridge in eight minutes, but that doesn't alter the fact that people died and were maimed in those eight minutes.

Nothing you can really do about it. I bet at the moment, especially in the City, you are probably no further then 500m from armed police officers. Within a mile most definitely. 8 minutes from first phone call (most likely reporting RTA and not a terrorist incident) to 3 dead terrorists who were wearing (albeit fake) suicide vests is extroadinary. The carnage and panic that would have been going on and they identified and neutralised them.

Unfortunately you can't protect everyone against these attacks.

I would like the know the unit/ training of the AFO's that did the deed. It's impressive none the less but if it is just met/ city police units it's even more impressive than if they were militarily/ sas units that have been deployed domestically.

Imagine the carnage if even one of these terrorist manage to get into a pub and restaurant and take hostages? From the outside it would have looked like a hostage situation with a terrorist with a working suicide vest. Not sure on the procedure of engagement but I imagine it would have been a lot slower if they thought they could detonate in a busy building. Although to be fair I don't know where the terrorists were shot. That could have been the case, it sounded like they were killed pretty close together on the streets.

inflames · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:38

I want to know when the government or the people will finally draw a line in the sand and seriously do something. The terrorist will keep pushing, one day it will become a shove then we will shove back! I have read and heard many people talk about how it will become a civil war. I have always said i think it will never come to that, but the goverment needs to step and take the lead. If not someone or some group will start to take justice into their own hands and cause everything to escalate.

Aedus · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:41

Rroff said:
Its pretty trivial to encode a message into what looks like a normal block of text.

Sorry, should have made it clearer I was being sarcastic on the first line.

There's a multitude of tutorials online about creating a messaging app, it's very easy to do, so whilst terrorists will just create an app to communicate through privately, everyone else has to be spied on.

Rroff · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:42

inflames said:
I want to know when the government or the people will finally draw a line in the sand and seriously do something. The terrorist will keep pushing, one day it will become a shove then we will shove back! I have read and heard many people talk about how it will become a civil war. I have always said i think it will never come to that, but the goverment needs to step and take the lead. If not someone or some group will start to take justice into their own hands and cause everything to escalate.

Dunno about civil war but you only have to look to the history of many ME countries to see what is needed if you allow it to take hold.

stewski · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:43

inflames said:
I want to know when the government or the people will finally draw a line in the sand and seriously do something. The terrorist will keep pushing, one day it will become a shove then we will shove back! I have read and heard many people talk about how it will become a civil war. I have always said i think it will never come to that, but the goverment needs to step and take the lead. If not someone or some group will start to take justice into their own hands and cause everything to escalate.

UK Civil war? this isn't captain america, this is 3 idiots with a van and knives!

hornetstinger · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:44

inflames said:
I want to know when the government or the people will finally draw a line in the sand and seriously do something. The terrorist will keep pushing, one day it will become a shove then we will shove back! I have read and heard many people talk about how it will become a civil war. I have always said i think it will never come to that, but the goverment needs to step and take the lead. If not someone or some group will start to take justice into their own hands and cause everything to escalate.

Of course it will,.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

Rroff · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:44

Aedus said:
Sorry, should have made it clearer I was being sarcastic on the first line.

There's a multitude of tutorials online about creating a messaging app, it's very easy to do, so whilst terrorists will just create an app to communicate through privately, everyone else has to be spied on.

I got how you meant it - I was follow on commenting that its trivial to encode a message to pass through a normal messaging service let alone building your own messaging service.

Back in the day of IRC networks for instance some people figured out a way to piggy back on the protocol and use what looked like normal IRC packets to run an entire network below the level of the IRC server - was quite interesting technically but sadly was increasingly hijacked for dubious purposes.

inflames · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:45

stewski said:
UK Civil war? this isn't captain america, this is 3 idiots with a van and knives!

Yes it is an over exaggeration and i don’t see it myself but some people are starting to talk about it.

stewski · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:47

inflames said:
Yes it is an over exaggeration and i don’t see it myself but some people are starting to talk about it.

Some people are talking about the queen being an alien lizard!

Little*Freak · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:47

Hello, just so you lot know, the Guardian is reporting that one of these people was reported to the Police 2 years ago & that the lady who reported it never heard anything back from the Police.

Uther · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:48

inflames said:
Yes it is an over exaggeration and i don’t see it myself but some people are starting to talk about it.

Stormfront?

inflames · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:48

stewski said:
Some people are talking about the queen being an alien lizard!

Oh my god, i didn't know that! Better call the sun news paper.

Rroff · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:49

stewski said:
UK Civil war? this isn't captain america, this is 3 idiots with a van and knives!

If it is the spectre of Islamic fundamentalism getting a foothold then it will turn into more than just 3 idiots and a van - though civil war at this point seems a bit ludicrous.

sigma · 4 Jun 2017 at 20:51

stewski said:
If we are making silly statements to prove a point, lets legalise individuals owning rocket launchers and nukes, no?
So we agree weapons are regulated and are arguing over the level of regulation.

Let's just ban the Internet.