Manchester Arena Bombing Inquiry

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I'm not 100% on the other services, but fire crews from other stations were moved to stations near to the arena and held for some time before being released on active duty.

That is the proper response and staging medical response so it is ready to go when given the OK is a valid and proper way to approach this but it also reads like the response was pretty chaotic.

Sadly luring first responders in before a second detonation isn't an uncommon tactic.
 

SPG

SPG

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First rule of first aid...check if it safe to administer it....

For crying out loud this enquiry will have cost millions for what. To point the finger at all the failings of anyone who "wasnt their" uts nit as if they will update procedures for it.

Yes its said and a horrible thing but this gives closure to no one as usual. Apart from those wanting to sue everyone.
 
Soldato
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Wasn't it a common tactic during the 'troubles' to set off a bomb, await the emergency response and then detonate a secondary bomb to cause even more casualties.

Not saying that the response was correct but if their werr reports of more than one device it would at least explain some of the actions taken.

Horrible situation for everyone involved though, being first on scene and then gold/silver commander for that would be hellish.

Yes, the Omah bombing being one of the worst examples of this.
 
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It's the same after every mass Terror attack - In the post 7/7 inquiry the "higher up's" of the Ambulance and police services were raked over the coals over the same "we'll hold medics back in case there's secondary devices" and then vowed to "learn lessons" yet even in the post '17 London Bridge attacks 10 years later, where the police shot all 3 dead within 10 minutes, medics were still held back for hours despite all the "lessons learned" in 7/7, so it's no surprise that the same lack of accountability & lack of ownership "excuse" was trotted out yet again in Manchester by senior officers who are unfit to lead a boy scout troop never mind an emergency service.

There comes a time when "higher up's" sat in comfy offices miles from the action need to held directly accountable for their abject failures of leadership and command in these situations.

20+ years in the military including a few mass casualty events in Iraq has shown me that getting rapid medical aid is vital, even if it's a risk to do so. If a dumbass like me can figure that out why is that impossible for generations of senior management in the emergency services to understand that - sometimes you just need to take the risk to prevent further deaths.
Because the moment they send all first responders in without waiting out any secondary devices and they all get blown to bits, they'll then be dragged the opposite way across the coals.

They can't win because the public/people not involved have no appetite for anyone dying, they want magical responses where everyone one ends up ok.
 
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Because the moment they send all first responders in without waiting out any secondary devices and they all get blown to bits, they'll then be dragged the opposite way across the coals.

They can't win because the public/people not involved have no appetite for anyone dying, they want magical responses where everyone one ends up ok.

It's not about "winning" its about saving lives in the best way possible, and that means using risk management and having to actually take a risk, something these people are seemingly allergic too.

Also, you don't send in "everyone", but you send in some (say 2 units) and keep a constant stream of that "few" moving in and out i.e. as 2 get in, collect casualties and leave, another 2 immediately move in - then repeat whilst listening for the go-ahead from the Police who clear the scene for you to send in more units, but don't hold EVERYONE back "just in case", thats been 100% proven to have led to extra deaths at every inquiry we have again and again.

Again, I'm ex-military, I know the Risk vs Reward of getting medics into mass casualty events within the Golden Hour and I think there's too many people at the top of the management chain who either freeze up in the stress of the moment, or are spineless cowards who are more concerned with "not making any decision" rather than saving lives. So they pass the buck further up the chain until someone somewhere eventually is forced to order them to do something hours later, rather than doing their jobs immediately, assessing the risk and decided that the risk to some units is worth the benefit in saved lives.

How many extra lives are we going to accept being lost because time and time and time and time and time again Medics are held back outside the "Golden Hour" by a management chain that will NOT take any risk at all?

Edit - I also wonder who many of the "Hold back, thats the rules" people on here have any experience or training in mass casualty events, or how they'd feel if it's their child who died and at the inquest they found had died because the medics were blocked from attending whilst their child bled out?

I also realise that I probably sound overly passionate (or angry to some) about this. We trained for mass casualty at least once a year and I've personally experienced it twice, so when I see it being done so badly and lives being unnecessarily lost because of it despite management claims that they "learned lessons" from the previous 4+ attacks, I feel strongly about it.
 
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Let's all remember 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful tool.

I have no problem with mistakes being highlighted but let's not turn it into a witch hunt.
 
Man of Honour
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Same with most areas of business etc. no one gives a **** until something happens, no one values having a bit of preparedness. When an emergency comes along no one has the information needed to hand, procedures aren't in place, everyone assumes someone else will take charge, etc. rarely even basic organisation to deal with unexpected scenarios with a lot left to chance.

No to mention people in management who are there for all the wrong reasons.

so when I see it being done so badly and lives being unnecessarily lost because of it despite management claims that they "learned lessons" from the previous 4+ attacks, I feel strongly about it.

Yeah it is just incompetence from people who too complacent, too arrogant, too lazy, too stupid - same as the management of this coronavirus situation - even when we could see it coming a mile off.
 
Caporegime
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How's you manage to get a picture of Tony? Read that this morning. Unbelievable. First the grooming gangs and now people killed and injured because those with responsibility are wet.
 
Soldato
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Doesn't really matter why he didn't stop him as far as I'm concerned.

If you want your security to stop suspected terrorists you shouldn't be hiring 18 year olds on minimum wage who's training consist of some videos. Just a box ticking exercise as long as that is happening
 
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Doesn't really matter why he didn't stop him as far as I'm concerned.

If you want your security to stop suspected terrorists you shouldn't be hiring 18 year olds on minimum wage who's training consist of some videos. Just a box ticking exercise as long as that is happening
Like you say for most companies security is just a tick in the box, race to the bottom for the cheapest contractor.

Once they realise all that gets them is a mannequin in a shirt they'll then figure out they need to actually pay out some money, unfortunately in this case it wasn't just their venue being trashed that helped them figure that out.
 
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Wasn't it a common tactic during the 'troubles' to set off a bomb, await the emergency response and then detonate a secondary bomb to cause even more casualties.

Not saying that the response was correct but if their werr reports of more than one device it would at least explain some of the actions taken.

Horrible situation for everyone involved though, being first on scene and then gold/silver commander for that would be hellish.
I don't know all that much about the troubles but that's commonly done by way of drones in the middle east still.
 
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Yea i was saying this when i read the article, So political correctness basically stopped the guy from going over and he did not want to be seen as a racist. The entire political correctness cancer all it has done is create a climate of favouratism for certain groups.


I mean look at the recent riot and looting in America a few days ago, They are basically at the point where as soon as a black man is shot they loot and riot eventually it creates a climate of racism accusation fear and like the arena bomber will simply get people killed. You do your job and worry about race accusations later.


We need to nip this in the bud and fast.
 

NVP

NVP

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Simply more excuses, granted only from an 18 year old this time, but I cannot believe just how many failings took place and how much buck passing is going on.

Hopefully any inquest will force emergency services and public venues into a big change up.
 
Soldato
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Security didnt want to search him in case he was called a "racist" :\

So virtue signalling has actually got people killed.
 
Soldato
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Security at events is non existent. They're more bothered about people smuggling a couple of beers in than bombs and knives.
 
Associate
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Went to watch Australian Pink Floyd at Echo Arena Liverpool 2015 I had a carrier bag with a 6 pack of beer in it and was stopped by door staff and had it confiscated. How did Manchester bomber enter the arena with a obviously packed back pack without any problems?
 
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