It is just there is something weird about a lot of the footage - in some scenes it is like they are poised waiting for the cameras in others they are very half-hearted until they notice the cameras on them then they make sure they can be seen as getting their punches in, etc. in one case they were barely slaps let alone punches until one guy comes along and full on knees a guy in the face, etc. I'm not suggesting any explanation just there is some weirdness to it.
Meanwhile in Hong Kong....
- Thread starter mmj_uk
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It is just there is something weird about a lot of the footage - in some scenes it is like they are poised waiting for the cameras in others they are very half-hearted until they notice the cameras on them then they make sure they can be seen as getting their punches in, etc. in one case they were barely slaps let alone punches until one guy comes along and full on knees a guy in the face, etc. I'm not suggesting any explanation just there is some weirdness to it.
Soldato
For reference the term blow hard was a reference to the usual left wing mouth pieces you typically find in the press and government and was not a reference to any particular group of OCUK members.
Caporegime
Your mom blows hard.
Soldato
Soldato
Looks like the PLA may be deployed to Hong Kong. Tianamen pt.2 incoming.
https://imgur.com/gallery/PVJlboN
https://imgur.com/gallery/PVJlboN
Soldato
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It seems just a matter of time. Glad I missed all of this when I visited this year.
Soldato
Well RIP Hong Kong it was nice knowing you.
Caporegime
Chinese propaganda has reached hilarious new levels.
'Pro-Beijing leader posts photo of CIA agent, creates chaos. Twist: It is Matt Damon from Jason Bourne.'
Seriously, how dumb do they think people are?
Quietly wishing we hadn't returned Hong Kong.
'Pro-Beijing leader posts photo of CIA agent, creates chaos. Twist: It is Matt Damon from Jason Bourne.'
Seriously, how dumb do they think people are?
Quietly wishing we hadn't returned Hong Kong.
Caporegime
I landed in Hong Kong yesterday afternoon and there were a handful of demonstrators in arrivals at the airport. But if you didn't look at their faces it was hard to distinguish them to people holding up name signs waiting for people.
Soldato
Chinese propaganda has reached hilarious new levels.
'Pro-Beijing leader posts photo of CIA agent, creates chaos. Twist: It is Matt Damon from Jason Bourne.'
Seriously, how dumb do they think people are?
Quietly wishing we hadn't returned Hong Kong.
That's hilarious, but it could've been better.
Soldato
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That was always on the cards. The trouble is troublemakers don't know when to stop and they're playing right into the hands of chinese propagandists "look what democracy brings! Look at the chaos! And violence!" And it was all so predictable.
Like most of the recent rebellions, they expected too much of the west, especially of Britain which promised to keep China at bay (official statements of a Prime Minister is a promise).
Unfortunately for Hong Kong's resident democrats, they lost in 1997 and nothing is going to stop Beijing rolling in before or at the nominal 2047 'integration', they might as well accept it or apply for asylum.
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Associate
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Actually, I'm fairly certain the UK promised to make sure that for 50 years that Hong Kong would be allowed to retain their autonomy. To which China has not reneged on so far. And even if they send in the PLA to crush any dissidence, so long as China doesn't do anything else to the structure of Hong Kong that affects its autonomy, it's still technically staying true to the agreement of 50 years given to HK, so I'm fairly certain no one is going to go head to head with them over anything, especially over a domestic issue.
This was always going to be the case. Many fled during 1997, I know many of them here in the UK who were able to leave back then. But as for whether they can really apply for asylum is a grey area I feel. If asylum was to have been given, it would have been granted back in 1997 already and many more would have been able to leave. But clearly they didn't get granted back then, so I don't see why they would start to now. Also, where will they go? You're basically talking about the whole of HK virtually that doesn't want anything to do with China (considering familial links with people who want to leave), and with a population of around 8 million. Assuming lets say that only half (a generous number considering what is known) wants to apply for Asylum, that's still 4 million people. That's not a small number. And all this over currently still unproven issues with China; again, what China promised during the handover, technically they have not reneged over. I don't think any country is going to grant mass Asylum to 4 million people; individuals and small numbers maybe, but half of HK? No way.
Again, as I said much earlier on, the people should have been working to get as much for themselves as possible instead when they had the momentum, but now, they've only dug themselves into a hole they can't get out of. It's basically the same thing in the Civ games: A Mutual Defence pact means if someone outright attacks or declares war on you, I'll join in. But if you, the other member of this pact, force someone else to attack you through attacking them first (not the same, but you get the idea), I'm not coming over there to defend you; It your own issue. Treaty or no Treaty. You don't go all gung-ho and incite problems, and expect me to solve it. Same here.
Well it depends on the situation... I mean as an extreme example, supposing the PLA just decided to take a mass genocide approach and wipe out almost the entire population... well then you'd perhaps have anyone who escaped be eligible for asylum.
Back in reality though, perhaps if China ramps things up and more pro-democracy activists, book sellers etc.. were being targeted, maybe some get kidnapped or killed... then prominent activists at least might have a case. The general population as a whole perhaps doesn't though, they just live under an in increasingly authoritarian regime but their life isn't directly under threat etc..
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We all know that if the PLA is deployed, they won't be using lethal force, as that would cause outcry and would allow the UK and other countries to get on their back about the treaty they signed over HK. So they will use initial non-lethal methods to disperse the crowds, but unlike the Police of HK, they don't have to be subtle about it at all and can ramp up the force they can produce to get the job done. Because the people of HK can come back and ride on the Police there; they can't with the PLA. Only troublemakers will continue to resist, and China couldn't be happier getting rid of such nuisance to another country (after they apply for Political Asylum). So it's only going to be a win for China here.
Agreed. Which is why the I said the populace who took part was stupid in not hammering home as much as they could for when they do go fully under the authority of China. Instead, they squandered it all to make the news instead. Which will promptly be forgotten in a few weeks after it dies down as all news done. What a waste.
What action should they have done?
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Exactly what I talked about already; Giving yourself a way out.
They had the lawmakers attention; they had already stalled the progress of it (extradition to China) getting into actual Law. They should have pressed for more assurances and other protections written in as much as possible instead that target many and protect many. Then, when and if China does press down on Hong Kong, even after the 50 years they promised, any direct changes to something like that which impacts many people of HK (which likely would happen as it doesn't favour China) could allow the people of HK a way out by seeking Asylum as their laws and protections are being erased (a large group is being affected; one of the criteria for Asylum). Something they can't do right now as it'll be all seen as a domestic issue instead because they chose to make the news by acting out as hoodlums instead.
:: edit ::
They need to stick to the goal: Change the Law. Not change the country.