MI5

AJUK · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:06

Like I needed another reason to be paranoid after last week. They have been doing it for years, I expect I am on their list. :eek:

/checks tin foil hat is on correctly

Una · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:12

And on a lighter note,

http://cryptome.org/mi6-knickers.htm

AJUK · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:23

If you have been visiting cyptome.org, you will definately have a file. They are watching you.

Borris · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:30

D.P. said:
Apart form the fact that GTAC holds a copy of your private key allowing them to read all your encrypted data.

Not yet, they don't.

sr4470 said:
Unless the law is changed, encryption keys have to be handed over when requested.

The part of RIPA requiring private keys to be handed over has not come into law yet (as another member of the forum pointed out to me).

To the OP - Yes, the intelligence services can require ISPs / telecoms carriers to hand over information, under various Acts (RIPA allowing a lower level of judicial oversight, for example), but they are not allowed to do so willy nilly. Although they probably often do.

There is no interception of normal traffic in real time, per se. From a purely practical perspective, the costs would be too great - They need to knwo what they are be looking for first.

Indy500 · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:39

Borris said:
Not yet, they don't.

The part of RIPA requiring private keys to be handed over has not come into law yet (as another member of the forum pointed out to me).

It hasnt? I thought the EU data retention laws went through as well (providers must keep data records for 6 months for investigative purposes)

Borris · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:42

sr4470 said:
It hasnt? I thought the EU data retention laws went through as well (providers must keep data records for 6 months for investigative purposes)

The retention is a different part of the act, and separate from the EU piece.

penski · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:46

Untilabout 1998 my email signature was something along the lines of:

*n said:
Take bombs by train, smoke cannabis weed assassinate acid LSD, detonate bums over london, take down the government

<blahblahblah, nonsensical warblings and keywords>

Just giving you guys something to read. have fun.

*n

MastermindUK · 14 Aug 2006 at 20:48

This article explains what's happening with part 3 of the RIP act.

The main point:

"The use of encryption is... proliferating," Liam Byrne, Home Office minister of state told Parliament last week. "Encryption products are more widely available and are integrated as security features in standard operating systems, so the Government has concluded that it is now right to implement the provisions of Part 3 of RIPA... which is not presently in force."

Part 3 of RIPA gives the police powers to order the disclosure of encryption keys, or force suspects to decrypt encrypted data.

Ex-RoNiN · 14 Aug 2006 at 21:01

There's also a submarine (owned by the US Navy I think) which has the ability to dive down to the transatlantic telecommunications wires and literally hack itself in with a big spoon-like device, thus listening in on all data transmitted across it.

Una · 14 Aug 2006 at 22:08

Borris said:
Not yet, they don't.
There is no interception of normal traffic in real time, per se. From a purely practical perspective, the costs would be too great - They need to knwo what they are be looking for first.

Actaully if you look at the gear Narus sell, it can do real time packet analysis on huge amounts of data. This is what the AT&T engineer who was at the center of that CIA-AT&T tapping scandal installed supposedly. The costs would be huge I agree, so it does not sound very practical. Its more likely the log traffic they suspect and analyse at a later date.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060720-7316.html

thelonecrouton · 14 Aug 2006 at 22:17

Ex-RoNiN said:
There's also a submarine (owned by the US Navy I think) which has the ability to dive down to the transatlantic telecommunications wires and literally hack itself in with a big spoon-like device, thus listening in on all data transmitted across it.

Nah that's just Hagbard playing silly bug-#####&^$%&$%&((-CARRIER TERMINATED#####

Sleepy · 14 Aug 2006 at 22:18

Ex-RoNiN said:
There's also a submarine (owned by the US Navy I think) which has the ability to dive down to the transatlantic telecommunications wires and literally hack itself in with a big spoon-like device, thus listening in on all data transmitted across it.

USS Jimmy Carter is the current sub that does such deeds. But the USN had being doing this for decades, one of their cable taps is sitting in a Moscow museum after it was betrayed to the Soviets by a traitor.

For a good read on the declassified spying activities of the USN submarines try Blind Man's Bluff by By Sherry Sontag, Christopher Drew

Oliver · 15 Aug 2006 at 05:42

Why would they bother with a submarine and not just intercept the cables when they come onto the land?

D.P. · 15 Aug 2006 at 09:32

Oliver said:
Why would they bother with a submarine and not just intercept the cables when they come onto the land?

Visible target. A submarine can tap in secretly anywhere along the atlantic (depth limitations in mind) and can move around to different tap zones . They could, for example secretly tap outgoing Russian communicates undersea without being noticed.

Onw thing to note that although tapping phones is difficult with a lot of processing, emails are scanned with very, very similar software all the time. Spam filters basically are the same mechanism and almost every email gets put through a spam filter or 2. Simply change 'porn' for 'bomb', etc. and off they go. Off course, this still leaves lots of useless data, which is why more advanced data mining algorithms are used to look at context words, email history, searh for arabic words and names, any encrypted emails. A similar idea to credit card verification, the bank builds up a hpattern of usage and can determine if the pattern changes. MI5 checks the pattern matches potential terrorist behaviours.