Mondeo 2.2 TDCI ST or Vectra 1.9 CDTI SRI

[OllyM]

It's not pointless, they can be purchased for within £500 of each other.

And anyway, the OP wants either a Vectra or a Mondeo, not a Passat.

 

[Draeger]

and will be worth about 10p next year..

Absolute nonsense.

 

[[TW]Fox]

This is a pointless argument. Comparing residuals of a top of the range mondeo to a bottom of the range passat proves nothing

He is comparing the Mondeo and Passat that, brand new, £16500ish would buy you.

He is comparing the two most similarly priced cars from each range.

I know its hard for you to comprehend becuase everyone has always told you VW is residually awesome and Mondeos suck but it isnt that hard to grasp.

 

[OllyM]

Just because something has a Ford badge on it doesn't mean it's a disaster. On the flip side, just because something has a VW badge on it doesn't mean it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Let's face it, the VW badge is hardly hugely upmarket. Audi, yes, but not VW.

 

[Smiley Man]

i'd say its worth having a look at the passat, i much preferred it to the mondeo diesel i rode in (never drove the mondeo though)

arent VW bringing out a 170bhp one soon anyway?

 

[[TW]Fox]

i'd say its worth having a look at the passat, i much preferred it to the mondeo diesel i rode in (never drove the mondeo though)

It would take extreme badge snobbery to prefer a base model Passat to a top of the range Mondeo, really.

 

[Smiley Man]

It would take extreme badge snobbery to prefer a base model Passat to a top of the range Mondeo, really.

of course

top spec mondeo or top spec passat though? what would you go for?

bit Ot but i am interested to hear foxs' reaction

 

[[TW]Fox]

of course

top spec mondeo or top spec passat though? what would you go for?

bit Ot but i am interested to hear foxs' reaction

Not driven a top spec Passat but the price difference would be huge, thousands infact, so I'd take a similarily priced 320d

 

[Smiley Man]

Not driven a top spec Passat but the price difference would be huge, thousands infact, so I'd take a similarily priced 320d

fair enough

ive driven a passat TDi S and its very nice, but then again ive never driven any other mid size family car (apart from an old rusty vectra with a whopping 82bhp) so i cant really comment

 

[POB]

I'd have the Mondeo looks much nicer.

But with the Fiat Vauxhall Diesel engine, its great.

 

[Gilly]

I'd never take a Vectra over a same-age-same-spec-same-cost Mondeo. Ever.

The Mondeo is the much nicer car

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'd have the Mondeo looks much nicer.

But with the Fiat Vauxhall Diesel engine, its great.

2.2 TDCi is great as well.

 

[Slackworth]

In my opinion, Vauxhall reliability has certainly got worse. Given the choice I'd go for the Mondeo. I'd be tempted by the Titanium X though. Best bits of the Ghia X plus the best bits of the ST.

 

[mattpc]

Slightly off topic but whats the 2.2 Mondeo DERV engine like. I know that the 2.2 HDI PSA engine used in the C5, 406 coupe etc is not that highly regarded by many. Is this is the same engine in the Mondeo or a completely different unit?

 

[[TW]Fox]

In my opinion, Vauxhall reliability has certainly got worse. Given the choice I'd go for the Mondeo. I'd be tempted by the Titanium X though. Best bits of the Ghia X plus the best bits of the ST.

Thing is though, residually, the Titanium X is simply another Mondeo. It's odd, its a higher spec than the ST but just look at the second hand values of both - already there is quite a difference between Titanium X and ST TDCi.

It's the same story as with the Ghia X and ST24 in Mk2 form. Ghia X the better car, ST24 worth noticeably more.

 

[blueboy2001]

I bought an ST TDCi in December and have been very pleased with it. I was going to buy a new one through a broker, but to get one for around £16.5k I found they were loathed to commit to a set delivery date and wouldn't do the deal on the basis of delivery within a set time or the deal was off. They also wanted to keep the V5 for 6 months. If you want it cheap you get it when someone needs to shift one to meet their sales target it seems. Some of the more expensive brokers who were £17-£17.5k would commit to delivery inside 8 weeks but clearly there is a much bigger margin in the car for the supplying dealer.

In the end I found Fords of Winsford had a steady stream of 5-7 month old cars with 7-15k on the clock for around £15k. I ended up with a Panther Black car, 5 months old and 7700 on the clock for under £15k and picked it up 2 days later. I've put 10k on it since and apart from a minor leak from the rear wash wipe it's been faultless. It's averaged 47mpg since I've had it and it does not get driven gentily.

Someone mentioned tyres - my front Conti Sport Contact 2's lasted 13k, but wore slightly unevenly on the inside edge. I suspect this was due to under inflation before I had the car, but I've had the geometery done as well which was slightly out. Other drivers say they've got 15k+ out of their fronts so they're not too heavy on tyres, but you will pay at least £125 a corner for anything decent. I changed mine for Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's and they cost me £280 a pair.

Servicing costs are cheap - £120 every 12.5k and £150 every 36.5k at my local dealer. The Mondeo also has the advantage of a chain driven engine - no cambelt to fail or change.

The ST is great to drive - the suspension is different and it's got a quicker steering rack than the standard models so it responds instantly to steering input. If you get 2005.5 facelift car the brakes are also improved over earlier models. The 2.2 engine has masses of through the mid-range but it not that quick of the mark as the engine map limits torque in the first and second gears, but it flies through third and fourth so gives good performance on the road without much effort. The gearbox is slick and precise with a good set of gear ratios - 6th gear at 70mph is about 1850rpm, 90 is under 2500rpm so its very relaxed on the motorway - it will pull strongly from 60mph in 6th so there is rarely a need to change down unless you hit slower traffic. Spec is pretty good too -part leather sports seats (get the 8 way full electric seats if you can - they fitted as standard for a while after the 2005.5 facelift), Climate control, Auto lights and wipers, Headlamp washers, electric folding door mirrors, auto dimming rear view mirror, Sony 6CD stereo, ESP, Trip computer, Cruise, Cat 1 Alarm etc as well as the usual stuff. The ride is quite firm, but the damping is spot on so whilst you can feel the road under the car it doesn't bounce along the road like say a Audi A4 Sport. I do a lot of my driving out in the sticks on pretty rough country lanes so I can't live with anything that bounces around over broken tarmac.

I've not driven a latest facelift Vectra, but I have driven an 04 plate CDTi 150 and didn't handle or inspire confidence even as well as my old 02 2.0 TDCi Zetec, and the ST is significant step up from that.

 

[blueboy2001]

Given the choice I'd go for the Mondeo. I'd be tempted by the Titanium X though. Best bits of the Ghia X plus the best bits of the ST.

The Titainium X only gets ST bumpers and front wings. It doesn't have the rear spoiler, lightweight alloy wheels, quicker steering rack, nor the ST suspension setup which are what sets the car apart from a "normal" Mondeo, so you don't really get the best bits of the ST.

Slightly off topic but whats the 2.2 Mondeo DERV engine like. I know that the 2.2 HDI PSA engine used in the C5, 406 coupe etc is not that highly regarded by many. Is this is the same engine in the Mondeo or a completely different unit?

They are completely different engines. The PSA 2.2 is a belt driven engine with balancer shafts and is fitted with a particle filter. The Ford engine is a bored out version of the 2.0 with a stronger crank and uprated clutch and flywheel. Ford use the same block on the Transit engines which are available up to 2.4L.

I used to have a 2.2 C5 and it was thirsty for a TD - struggled to get 40MPG really. It also has a very peaky torque curve so it's not that fast under hard acceleration. The only minor benefit over the Ford is that it is quieter when cold. Beware that early versions of the PSA 2.2 need the particle filter doing every 50k and the special fuel additive filling up which costs about £500.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The Titainium X only gets ST bumpers and front wings. It doesn't have the rear spoiler, lightweight alloy wheels, quicker steering rack, nor the ST suspension setup which are what sets the car apart from a "normal" Mondeo, so you don't really get the best bits of the ST.

It doesn't even get the bodykit anymore - that was only when the Titanium X was a special edition introduced in 2004. From the 2005 revisions, when Titanium X became a standard part of the Mondeo range, it lost the bodykit.

 

[clockworks]

I really don't understand how some people think there's a huge difference between Mondeos and Vectras. For the past 20 years, all my company cars have been Mondeos/Sierras or Vectras/Cavaliers, apart from 3 years when I ran my own cars for work (old Granadas and Carltons).

The Fords have always had the slight edge when driven hard, while the Vauxhalls have always been quieter (less wind noise) and more economical.

They are both built by huge multi-national corporations, and aimed at the same market. Both platforms are used by other marques for "upmarket" models (Saab and Jaguar). To me, it's not surprising that the cars are very similar.

The only truly bad cars that I've driven have all come from the PSA group (Picasso and 306). They are just not designed for tall people with big feet.

 

[Scrutinize]

In the end I found Fords of Winsford had a steady stream of 5-7 month old cars with 7-15k on the clock for around £15k. I ended up with a Panther Black car, 5 months old and 7700 on the clock for under £15k and picked it up 2 days later. I've put 10k on it since and apart from a minor leak from the rear wash wipe it's been faultless. It's averaged 47mpg since I've had it and it does not get driven gentily.

Someone mentioned tyres - my front Conti Sport Contact 2's lasted 13k, but wore slightly unevenly on the inside edge. I suspect this was due to under inflation before I had the car, but I've had the geometery done as well which was slightly out. Other drivers say they've got 15k+ out of their fronts so they're not too heavy on tyres, but you will pay at least £125 a corner for anything decent. I changed mine for Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's and they cost me £280 a pair.

Servicing costs are cheap - £120 every 12.5k and £150 every 36.5k at my local dealer. The Mondeo also has the advantage of a chain driven engine - no cambelt to fail or change.

I've not driven a latest facelift Vectra, but I have driven an 04 plate CDTi 150 and didn't handle or inspire confidence even as well as my old 02 2.0 TDCi Zetec, and the ST is significant step up from that.

Excellent, Thank you for this. I have found a 10k miler ST at my local ford dealer. I wouldn't buy a new one, even from boadspeed as I would rather get a few month old one for a few thousand less.

I don't really like VW passats and for the money they imo are under specced and slow but thanks for the suggestion. £15k gets me a TDI 140 with cloth trim and average spec and 15k on the clock.

11K Gets me a Vectra SRI CDTI (120)
12k gets me a SRI CDTI (150)
13k gets me the 3.0 CDTI (beast)

These are advertised prices from local dealers.

A guy at my work has a Vectra CDTI estate, "fully loaded" as he proudly put it. He paid wait for it......................




£23,000 cash brand new from a main dealer. I had great pleasure in telling him his 2 year old car was worth about 7k. He was like its worth more than that so I showed him the book price. He left shortly after that and went to a new company. I would like to think that I had caused him enough shame to influence his decision to leave. Flipping Toffs.

Anyway, I am off for a drive in a min so will keep you guys posted.

Cheers