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My Phanteks case fan has started to fail! Spec me the quietest 140mm fans?

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by mrk, 19 Jul 2020.

  1. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 86,132

    Location: South Coast

    Today I came to my PC after hearing a clicking noise and feared a HDD failure but turns out it's just one of the 3 Phanteks 140mm fans that has bearing failure. Rather than replace just that one I have decided to throw them all i the bin and get nice new ones designed to have a long MTBF with quietness in mind.



    The case is an Enthoo Evolv ATX and I have 2x front intake and 1x rear exhaust configuration. A H115i sits at the top for CPU cooling with 2x Nanoxia Deep Silence series fans PWM controlled to silent running.

    All the case fans are running in silent smart fan profile in the BIOS anyway so hover between 590 and 720rpm.

    I'm after 3x quiet fans that do push decent air still if anyone can recommend something? I don't need/want RGB lighting etc, just black fans and if they have red accents then that's a bonus as it will go well with my interior decor :D

    Cheers!
     
  2. doyll

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 1 Jul 2011

    Posts: 8,268

    Not sure Nonoxica Deep Silence series static pressure rating is, but as I remember it's not very high so can't overcome resistance of grills and fliters very well. The Stock Evolv ATX fans are better, in fact are quite good. Think it came with 3x 140mm fans. I've found rear exhaust fans generally don't do much if anything to lower component temps. Maybe move that one to front? Also, blocking all openings in front fan mounting panel so all air fans there push into case has to flow through case and out and can't leak round to go in circles helps. Same with fans from motherboard compartment to top of case. All openings in fan/radiator mounting panel not covered by them need to be blocked off so air they pull out of motherboard compartment has to flow out of top. there are a few tricks to increasingn top vent area, like pull of the slotted vent grill mesh and stick it along side allows those vent to flow several times more air. Same with plastic in back at top. I set my top on without clipping it down to have an extra slot full length of each side to let air out. Ended up adding spacers to it's mounts as well as to power button so top clipped in with about 5mm gap all around it. Don't forget spacer in power button. I broke one when I forgot top wasn't clipped down and pushed it. ;(

    Best replacement fans are be quiet! Silent Wings 3 high speed PWM. I say high speed because normal speed only run up to 1000rpm, which is enough almost all the time. But in very hot weather with system working hard and dirty filters I sometimes need 1100-1200rpm to get job done and keep system cool.
     
  3. PieEater

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,772

    Location: Devon

    Budget no issue - Be Quiet Silent Wings 3, engineered for the best compromise between noise and performance.
    Low cost option - Arctic P14 PWM PST, brilliant fans for the money I have 5 P14s and 2 p12s and am incredibly pleased with their performance. The PST version has a piggy back connector so you can daisy chain fans from a single fan header, i.e. if you want your intakes and exhaust spinning in unison you can hook them all up to the same fan header using the PST connectors from fan to fan. Check out the 5 packs as they offer even better value as long as you can mount them all.
    Best Fanboy option - Noctua, they make the best fans full stop :p
     
  4. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 86,132

    Location: South Coast

    Cheers guys!

    Haven't had any issues with airflow I don't think, all these years the 6700k has been running at a fixed 4.4GHz without a hitch! But blocking off those extra holes etc around the front of the case frame seems like a good shout as I did clean out a layer of dust from the inside of the fan blades today even though the dust filter on the front was caked and doing its job so it's clear there is dust getting in then circling back onto the blade walls through those open gaps over time.

    I was going to buy the Noctua ones off OcUK but they're out of stock and then came here to spec me lol. I see Noctua now do black fans but they are industrial models with high noise levels so not my bag really.

    I really like the idea of daisy chaining those PST fans, sounds like a genius idea and frees up some headers on the mobo. Will fanspeed monitoring still be relayed this way correctly to the OS so I can keep an eye on speeds/temps etc? I use Open Hardware Monitor with a desktop widget to keep an eye on things.

    As for the Be Quiet! fans, ocuk sell pure wings and shadow wings, are those the ones you guys meant? https://www.overclockers.co.uk/air-cooling/fans/pwm-fans?ckSuppliers=71&ckTab=0&sSort=2

    Edit*
    Found the Silent Wings model elsewhere!
     
    Last edited: 19 Jul 2020
  5. doyll

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 1 Jul 2011

    Posts: 8,268

    Daisy chaining fans is fine but be careful to not overload your fan headers. Take fan's rated running amp/watt load and multiply it by 4 and you have an idea of how much it draws at startup of if bearing siezes/gets something stuck into impeller. Add that number to how many fans you are thinking about putting on one fan header. If it's more htan about 1.5a, take one of them off that header and use another. That heavy surge at startup is why most fan header and/or fan controller failures happen at system startup. ;)

    Pure Wings and Shadow Wings have much lower static pressure rating. Static pressure rating (mm H2O) is how much pressure fan can push into a sealed container at full speed, and gives us an idea of how much resistance (like filter, grill, cable, etc) fan is able to over come and keep lowing air. So basically the higher fans' static pressure rating are at speeds we plane to run them the better their airflow will be .. meaning the slower we can run them and keep system cool. Slower speeds mean less noise. ;)

    No, link below is Silent Wings 3 High Speed PWM
    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=silent+wings+3+PWM+high+speed

    Specifically this one
    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/be-quiet-silent-wings-3-140mm-pwm-high-speed-fan-fg-039-bq.html

    I haven't used Arctic P14 fans, but have heard they a decent and definitely low priced. I have also heard some are already starting to fail, and they haven't been on the market for very long, maybe a year now. Honestly, the stock case fans in Evolv are quite good. If you have one doing fine as exhaust, move it to the front, block the holes like I said and you should be fine.

    Oh! Clean your filters at least once a month. I do mine when I hoover room, even though they are not dirty. That way they don't get forgotten. ;)
     
  6. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 86,132

    Location: South Coast

    Ah thanks, I did think about moving the exhaust to the front but I would still like to have an exhaust fan of some kind anyway as my case does not have top mounted exhaust as the H115i sits up there with the Nanoxia blowing onto the radiator so not really much of an exhaust as such.

    Also if 1 Phanteks is now failing after 4 years then the others can't be far off so thought I'd just replace them all as they all came with the case.

    I'm wondering now though since the static pressure of the Nanoxia isn't as high rated as maybe I'd like, should I just replace all fans with something like the Be Quiet ones for better cooling and better noise. The high speed version is not a problem as I'll be running them all via the BIOS silent profile anyway which ramps up when needed. I don't mind ordering 5x silent wings pwm high speed if it will be of good benefit and last a long time!

    Dust filter does get cleaned, though not every month, every couple of months although I do try if I've got time once a month!
     
  7. PieEater

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,772

    Location: Devon

    All of the daisy chained fans will be running at the same speed so you will continue to be able to monitor and control them as if they were a single fan.
    Arctic state a current draw for the P14 PWM of 0.14 Amp, fan headers are usually designed to provide 1 Amp so having 3 fans on the same header will really not be an issue.
    I really haven't heard of any issues regarding the P14's, perhaps this is with the older DC model? The PWM models have an industry leading 10 year warranty which show how much faith Arctic have in their motors, compare that with 3 years from BeQuiet and 6 years from Noctua.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jul 2020
  8. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 86,132

    Location: South Coast

    I'll admit I have not looked into the warranty for either so wasn't aware of the 10 years on offer, that is actually really compelling and makes a solid case for itself.

    Found a 5 pack of PWM PST for £29 (ocuk not in stock) so think for this price it's a sensible option for what looks to be great cooling and low noise :D

    Edit*
    Ordered the PWM PST. Cheers all.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jul 2020
  9. EsaT

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Jun 2008

    Posts: 8,628

    Location: Finland

    Arctic P14 PWM (/PST) is among top performers when put against expensive big brand and marketing hype fans:


    And ridiculously low power draw is major bonus when wanting to put multiple fans into one header.
     
  10. PieEater

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,772

    Location: Devon

    Good choice - I'm sure you'll be pleased, drop us an update when you have them fitted :)
     
  11. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 86,132

    Location: South Coast

    Delivery isn't expected until start of August but yep I will update!
     
  12. doyll

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 1 Jul 2011

    Posts: 8,268

    1 failing after just 4 years doesn't sound normal to me. I have original ones that have been running from first cases were released in late 2013, so 6.5 years of almost constant use. Still no fan problems. That doesn't mean yours will not fail sooner, but could easily go much longer. Sorry, when I read "I did clean out a layer of dust from the inside of the fan blades today even though the dust filter on the front was caked" I just assume it hadn't been cleaned in awhile. My bad.

    If money is not a consideration then I would definitley get Silent Wings high speed PWM. I agree, with speed control as long as fans idle down to 550-600rpm at idle having higher top speeds is not a problem at all, but can be great at keeping things cool in super hot weather.

    Arctic P14 PWM (/PST) is rated 12 V DC (Norminal) 0.12 A running load. That is how much it draws while running. Startup load is 3-6times running load for maybe a second at strtup, so 0.12 could easily be 0.60A starting up .. same if bear locks up or something stops impeller. Not a problem running 1, 2 maybe even 3 fans as long as nothing stops impeller from splinning. But that kind of load at startup is very likely to be overloading motherboard circuits for like a second heating them up, but droping back to 0.12 on each fan fast enough that motherboard trace doesn't short out. I would not run more than a couple on one header. Link below to Nidec Servo Gentle Typhoon fans has both startup and running load specs chearly showing 1850rpm GT is 83mA (0.083A running jumps to 360mA (0.369A) at startup. That means 3x GTs rated 0.083a pull 1.188A starting up. Most fan headers have no published specs but general rule of thumb is 1A is same maximum load.
    http://www.nidec-servo.com/en/digital/pdf/D1225C.pdf
     
  13. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 86,132

    Location: South Coast

    I've had single fans start to show similar symptoms before. The Corsair Air fans I had on the 115i before the Nanoxia were installed went through a similar fate hence the change to the Nanoxia. After that point I stopped considering Corsair fans as they seemed expensive without really adding much in the way of real world performance or reducing noise.

    The 10yr warranty on the Arctic swung it really with that kind of price. As mentioned above it shows their confidence in the product so I'm all for that. If they turn out to be poor after say 2 years then I've only spent £30 so no major wallet smashing endured!

    I have no problem paying for a name brand. My previous fans were Corsair Air series and before that the previous gen Noctuas before I did a rebuild and chose to keep colour scheme consistent instead of black, red, BEIGE and BROWN!!! :D

    I won't immediately be daisy chaining the PSTs though since I have 4 pin fan headers already available, but if I change things around in the future it's good to have options already available.

    I'll post a little OHM screenshot comparison before and after the swaps once installed to see how much difference the PSTs make to temps due to the better static pressure/airflow.
     
  14. doyll

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 1 Jul 2011

    Posts: 8,268

    "10 year warranty" is only as good as company saying it. Same as your auto insurance against vandalism or theft. If it does as we want great, but often doesn't. I've seen too many companies make such warranty claims but not give replacement, or deduct 20% per year, or making owner send in old one first at owners expense to Germany (that's where their headquarters are) and then claiming it's user abuse, or making owner pay for shipping both ways making it more expensive to get a warranty repalcement than by a new fan. Not saying Arctic is this way, but I have nothing proving they are not either. I'm a buyer beware kind of guy. Just because it's written or spoken doensn't make it real. ;)
     
  15. EsaT

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Jun 2008

    Posts: 8,628

    Location: Finland

    Some fans have specifically advertised protections which prevent fan from drawing high current if it can't run.
    I wonder if PWM fans have that built into their speed control circuitry.

    At least they should have easier start up with full 12V always available, unlike if motherboard doesn't give any start up boost in voltage control mode.
     
  16. doyll

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 1 Jul 2011

    Posts: 8,268

    I've seen circuit breaker that trip if too high a current is pulled or high current is pulled for too long they trip the power off. Some auto-reset, others have to be manually reset.

    I've never seen any fans with your 'specifically advertised protection' stated or implied in any fan (or any other) product literature. Could you could provide us with links to such protections? I would very much like to see it/them.

    What I have seen in motor industry is motors fitted with startup capacitors to supply extra power during startup.

    I've also seen applications to spread out startup load to many motors by starting one every few of seconds to keep from overloading power sources.
     
  17. PieEater

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,772

    Location: Devon

    Wow haters just gotta hate :rolleyes:

    Arctic clearly state that up to 5 fans can be supported on a single 1A fan header, 3 fans is never going to be an issue.
    "We recommend not to more than 5 fans as some motherboards may only deliver 1.0A per fan header. Please consult your motherboard specification."

    Arctic was established in 2001
    BeQuiet was established in 2002
    Noctua was established in 2005
    Phanteks was established in 2007

    Arctic is the longest established company in this list, with much more experience than the likes of Phanteks. In a cuthroat market if their products and / or waranty's were no good they would not still be in this list yet alone leading it with their products. Why even cast doubt on their warranties without any kind of reason :confused:
     
    Last edited: 19 Jul 2020
  18. EsaT

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Jun 2008

    Posts: 8,628

    Location: Finland

    Enermax had once some fans with auto-restart function.

    Capacitors can't store AC and aren't used for some "startup extra power".
    (though variable frequency drives can add capacitance to provide some start up current, but they usually also have soft start)

    Single phase AC motors often use capacitor to create phase shift for secondary winding, which is needed to create rotating magnetic field to get rotor moving.
    With just single winding, magnetic field would be just switching polarity.
    Hence rotor might not start moving at all, or even to wrong direction.
    Three phase AC gives that rotating magnetic field naturally.

    Also capacitors can be used for power factor correction.
    While households are usually charged only for consumed real power, anything lot consuming like industry has to pay for full apparent power and hence reactive power from inductances matters.
    And you cancel current component from inductance by adding capacitance in parallel with load.
     
  19. VaderDSL

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 15,273

    Location: Manchester

    Were these the SP version? I had one of my 120 sp fans develop the same issue. I bought a twin pack so swapped it out, but annoying, but haven’t yet looked into getting it replaced under warranty.
     
  20. Armageus

    Don

    Joined: 19 May 2012

    Posts: 11,548

    Location: Spalding, Lincolnshire

    I can't fault the Arctic P series fans - I've got a mix of 140mm and 120mm versions of them in 2 of my pcs - one since Christmas, and the other more recently.

    Not had an issue with any of them, they move a decent amount of air, are reasonably quiet and didn't cost the earth.