New Star Trek series - 2017

Soldato
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To be honest, I Googled 'kurtzman naacp blm' and that tweet was what came up.

TBH, there's far too many people in Hollywood at the moment that think they are important social influencers because they work on a TV show, and have forgotten that they are there to entertain and make money for their bosses. To say they have an inflated sense of ego and worth is an understatement.

Oh, Lord forbid that I use a little hyperbole to hang lampshades ;)

It can come across as straw-manning, but apologies if that's not what you meant.

Is that what Emma Watts has said though? From what I've read, she was talking about the movie side of things more than the TV side. I'll defer to anyone with greater knowledge.

Yes, but now that Paramount/Viacom/CBS or whatever they are calling themselves this week are back together again, there's a strong argument that you can't separate the two, and one affects the other strongly. I think there's also a better argument that Trek on the whole works better as a TV show, rather than big movies every couple of years. I think having someone like Watts at the top pushing to reset Trek to something more Trek-like (and less Kurtzman-like) is a good thing as it will affect both the movies and the TV shows.

The talent pool of exceptional sci-fi writers willing to work on TV diminished. When you used to have people like Sam Peeples, Robert Bloch, DC Fontana, John Meredyth Lucas, Norman Spinrad, David Gerrold, Harlan ******* Ellison...

Honestly, CBS should pay some of the better Trek novelists to come in and save them. People like Christopher L Bennett, Stephani Perry, the Dianes (Duane and Carey), Peter David, Judy & Gar Reeves-Steves, John Vornholt, Michael Jan Friedman. People who can actually write Star Trek.

Yes, but unfortunately because JJ Abrams and his protege Kurtzman didn't want to do the work, they simply took all that Trek extended universe and dumped it. It was obviously too much trouble to actually learn about the franchise they were working on, and so the Kelvin timeline was born. That way they could steal the characters, some of the stories, even some of the dialogue without having to actually make a Trek product.

There have apparently been several well known writers who have offered their services, but Kurtzman has ignored them, either because they won't toe the line for the "Trek Platform", or because Kurtzman doesn't want to be made to look bad by more talented people.

Yeah, I'm really not about to defend Kurtzman at all. I'm not a fan of a lot of the decisions made in the new Trek movies (I outright despise Into Darkness), I think STD has had only one truly good episode in two seasons so far (ironically one which a lot of current Trek fandom doesn't like, go figure!) and think the Picard series could have been better. But I do think that a good portion of Trek fandom makes way too much of the "divisive identity politics being shoe-horned in" deal.

Take STD. What was a major gripe for a lot of people¹, was it the hamfisted telegraphing of plot twists? The lousy acting? The continuity issues, both with itself and with the rest of Trek? The deeply uninteresting characters who were being crowded out of the screen by the focus on Bonehead?

Nope. "Gay characters in a visible relationship, ugh, that's tokenism!!!111oneonetwo" :rolleyes::p

And I wouldn't mind (NARRATOR: yes, he would) but that relationship between Culber and Stamets was easily more believable and better realised on-screen than the one between TylerVoq and Bonehead :D

¹ - not necessarily talking about anyone on here with that, but it's certainly been a thing in many corners of fandom this last few years. They'll skip right on by serious structural issues with the show to focus on what they perceive to be pushing The Gay Agenda™ (dun dun DUUUNNNN!!!).

TBH, I don't think that's fair. Sure, maybe there were a few that were unhappy at the gays, but I think more people were unhappy at the terrible writing, characters, and all the relationship drama around Bonehead, and the way they Mary-sued her into messing with canon and making her the source of everything good that had gone before. It was just easy for Kurtzman and his pet access media to point at the few and claim every ex-fan was simply a homophobe or a misogynist. That way they failure was not Kurtzman's, it was all these unenlightened fans who just wanted entertainment. The way they went on to attack the fans was shocking, and simply drove away all the people that made Trek fandom what it was. Kutzman actively attacked the canon that the fans had grown to love over the last 50-odd years, and then when they complained, Kurtzman attacked the fans too! They set out to paint a picture using a narrative that wasn't true for the vast majority, just to get themselves off the hook and deny any blame for the poor reception of STD, Picard and now Lower Decks.

Trek has always had ups and downs, but if it's good, if it has that Trek flavour at it's heart, the fans don't care about the colour of a character's skin, who they prefer to sleep with, or what they keep in their trousers. Good story and characters trump all, but Kurtzman has not managed that with STD, Picard, or Lower Decks. He's just not capable of overseeing Trek, and seems to take delight in ******* on canon, and then ******* on the fans. For doing so he's been rewarded with failure after failure, which is as it should be, despite him blaming the fans instead of looking in the mirror. It's time Kurtzman goes, and Watts speaking out against current incarnations of Trek (and by extension Kurtzman) is a little glint of light at the end of the tunnel that many ex-fans are taking to heart in the absence of any other hope for the future.
 
Soldato
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OK, I'm going mad.

I have just re-watched seasons 1 and 2 of ST: Discovery.

I had in my head an episode that wasn't there.

I'm sure it based on the discovery, in the future and only one person was left, all alone.

I'm convinced it was a discovery episode.

Any ideas?
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
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OK, I'm going mad.

I have just re-watched seasons 1 and 2 of ST: Discovery.

I had in my head an episode that wasn't there.

I'm sure it based on the discovery, in the future and only one person was left, all alone.

I'm convinced it was a discovery episode.

Any ideas?

It's one of the Short Treks episodes I think.

***edit***

"Calypso", the second Short Treks episode.
 

JRS

JRS

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Ah yes, that's it, thank you.

Watched them on Netflix when originally released and now those shorts are not there anymore on Netflix from what i can see.

You aren't missing much if you don't watch them. Aside from a major plot point for the season 2 finale of course, but then the less said about that episode the better anyway.
 

JRS

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STD to introduce its first transgender and non-binary characters.

The popular sci-fi franchise Star Trek is set to introduce its first transgender and non-binary characters.

The characters are to appear in the third series of Star Trek: Discovery, producers said on Wednesday.

The trans character, Gray, will be played by trans actor Ian Alexander, and likewise non-binary Adira will be portrayed by Blu del Barrio.

"Star Trek has always made a mission of giving visibility to underrepresented communities," said a producer.

The show's co-runner and executive producer Michelle Paradise added: "It believes in showing people that a future without division on the basis of race, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation is entirely within our reach."

I gotta say, I'm looking forward to this being the reason that fandumb throws hate around. And by 'looking forward to' I of course mean I look forward to hanging a lampshade on how stupid those criticisms will be when the myriad other problems that the series has are essentially getting a free pass ;)
 
Man of Honour
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That cant be right surely, not sure on the transgender but I'm pretty sure they have had non binary characters before, wasnt there an episode where a whole civilization was nonbinary and Ryker fell in love with one of them and it caused a diplomatic crisis??
 
Soldato
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These kind of modern topics lend themselves to Star Trek. So long as they're not a forced issue in the show then it's all good to me.

Of course it will be forced in, just like everything else has been. In a show packed with so much agenda that there's no room for good stories, characters, or dialogue, Kurtzman simply doubles-down. Put in as much agenda as you like, as long as it comes after good stories and characters, something we know Kurtzman is not capable of.

I note this is now going to go out on free-to-air CBS. It's obviously not bringing in subscribers to the CBS streaming service, Netflix is furious and has bailed, Amazon learned their lesson with Picard. I'm still predicting this is the last series of STD, and a second series of STP may not happen. Even Brave New Worlds is just an idea thrown into the wind with no definite future.
 
Soldato
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I don't know where CBS makes this up from - Star Trek: The Next generation already had several episodes with whole planets filled with Non-binary and/or Transgender people and Deep Space Nine had 2 "transgender-ish" characters as some of it's main stars (Jadzia Dax and Ezri Dax). As per usual with "modern" Trek series,the showrunners haven't got a bloody clue about the history of Trek and trot out all kinds of nonsense.

S5E17 - The Outcast - deals with a whole planet of Non-binary people.

S2E22 - The Cogenitor - deals with a whole planet of Transgender people.

S4E23 - The Host - deals with same sex relationships when Beverly Crusher falls for a Male host of a Trill symbiont, which is then transferred to a Female host when the Male dies but still has feelings for the Dr.

Jadzia Dax in Deep Space Nine had several romantic interests with people of both male and female genders.

etc etc.

The problem is going to be simple, these two new characters are going to be one dimensional, poorly written caricatures, defined ONLY by this one issue and as such the characters will rightly be lambasted for being crap and the blue check-mark Twitter mob will then jump all over Trek fans for being "phobic", when it's them who are completely ignorant of Trek's history of acceptance for all, regardless of sex/gender/ages/colour/creed etc.
 

JRS

JRS

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That cant be right surely, not sure on the transgender but I'm pretty sure they have had non binary characters before, wasnt there an episode where a whole civilization was nonbinary and Ryker fell in love with one of them and it caused a diplomatic crisis??

Yep. I still think Frakes is right that they should have cast a male/male infentifying/less overtly female actor for that role. But there's no way that TPTB back then would have had the guts to do it.
 
Man of Honour
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I don't know where CBS makes this up from - Star Trek: The Next generation already had several episodes with whole planets filled with Non-binary and/or Transgender people and Deep Space Nine had 2 "transgender-ish" characters as some of it's main stars (Jadzia Dax and Ezri Dax). As per usual with "modern" Trek series,the showrunners haven't got a bloody clue about the history of Trek and trot out all kinds of nonsense.

S5E17 - The Outcast - deals with a whole planet of Non-binary people.

S2E22 - The Cogenitor - deals with a whole planet of Transgender people.

S4E23 - The Host - deals with same sex relationships when Beverly Crusher falls for a Male host of a Trill symbiont, which is then transferred to a Female host when the Male dies but still has feelings for the Dr.

Jadzia Dax in Deep Space Nine had several romantic interests with people of both male and female genders.

etc etc.

The problem is going to be simple, these two new characters are going to be one dimensional, poorly written caricatures, defined ONLY by this one issue and as such the characters will rightly be lambasted for being crap and the blue check-mark Twitter mob will then jump all over Trek fans for being "phobic", whewn it s them who are completely ignorant of Trek history and acceptance in Trek of all manner of sex/gender/ages/colour/creed etc.

Those facts dont fit the narrative. Cant wave the flag of virtue by saying "We're doing something we've done before" , its not as attention grabbing as "Look ! For the first time ever in the show ! Look at how progressive we are !" /waitsforcheersandpatsontheback
 
Soldato
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It's just noise from CBS, and it pretty much sums up the state of Star Trek these days. Introduce the characters by all means but do a little fact checking first FFS, because fans will just rip you apart if you dont. DO THE BASIC STUFF. Klutzman isn't capable of such a feat. Neither are CBS, by all accounts.
 

R3X

R3X

Soldato
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That cant be right surely, not sure on the transgender but I'm pretty sure they have had non binary characters before, wasnt there an episode where a whole civilization was nonbinary and Ryker fell in love with one of them and it caused a diplomatic crisis??

Cant even recall that one but I did remember this great scene

 
Soldato
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Think is I don’t think we made an issue out of this sort of stuff 20years ago, people were odd or different and you just got on with it, these days with social media etc everyone thinking it’s their born right to be heard, understood, accepted, pandered too and accepted, stinks of spoilt entitlement...
Sexuality, gender, colour, religion etc, do what you want, don’t force it on me and don’t try to force me to believe in the things you do, don’t be a dick and we’ll be fine...
 
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