new subwoofer has rca input only, but receiver (amplified) has only wire level: how to connect?

andreaaaaaa · 20 Jan 2018 at 18:23

Hello!
I want to buy a new subwoofer (possibly a Yamaha NS-SW100), which has rca input only.
My receiver (amplified) has only speaker level wires flowing out: how to connect them?
My system is an old all-in-one Pioneer S-DV222
I can't seem to find other subs on a budget that have speaker level input.

Thanks!

john_s · 20 Jan 2018 at 20:02

You should find a high level to line level (aka speaker to RCA) converter from any of the usual suspects... eBay, Amazon, Maplin, etc.

lucid · 20 Jan 2018 at 20:02

Welcome to the forum.

You won't find budget subwoofers, new, with a set of speaker inputs. That's a feature of higher-priced subs.

Your Pioneer is an all-in-one home cinema kit. The subwoofer for it was simply a speaker in a box; the same principle as the satellites but on a larger scale. You're now looking at subs with their own in-built power supplies rather than taking power from the main unit. Although they're all classed as subs these are two different approaches.

There are a couple of solutions. A simple one is what's used by the car audio boys. It's a box that takes the speaker level connection from the Pioneer and converts it to low-level phono suitable for connecting to the Yamaha sub. The rain forest site has a "Fiimi Speaker to Female RCA High to Low Line Output Converter for Car/Home Audio (High to Low Line Output Converter)" link which would be easy for your to hook up as it has the phono sockets on the subwoofe-side ready connected. At £12 it'll hardly break the bank. There might be cheaper from other online source, but beware having to then mess around with soldering on connection plugs.

The device has a left-channel and a right-channel connection. You won't need to use both. Just choose one. The other set won't be used for your install.

The alternative would be a second-hand sub. The yam you're looking at is roughly £150 retail. That would buy you quite a bit of performance in the used sub market. Something along the lines of this KEF PSW1000 (Ebay number 302607061881), or Wharfedale, Celestion, probably a BK Electric Gemini (very good little subs), B&W, Tannoy.... there's a long list. .

andreaaaaaa · 20 Jan 2018 at 21:51

Thanks for your reply!
I don't feel like going used, but thanks for the suggestion.
I think I'll go with the converter. I was not sure about it because of weird connections, looks like I'd have to connect my Pioneer to the converter through a morsel, since most converters have speaker wire coming out of them, instead of sockets for me to insert speaker wires coming from my Pioneer.

Edit- found a converter that suits my wirings: female speaker wire and male rca

Marsman · 20 Jan 2018 at 22:43

Wharfedale SW150 can be had from SuperFi for £150 and has speaker level input.

lucid · 20 Jan 2018 at 22:45

That's always a challenge with these all-in-one kits. They're not designed for standard industry connections because that makers want it to be fool-proof.

Is the old sub dead, past it or lost? Chop off the plug leaving a tail. Connect via something as elegant (

) as this.

lucid · 20 Jan 2018 at 22:53

Marsman said:
Wharfedale SW150 can be had from SuperFi for £150 and has speaker level input.

That's a very good shout. Speaker connections, more power (150W). Been around long enough for a good history to search for reliability.

hornetstinger · 20 Jan 2018 at 22:57

As said, speaker level to RCA converter. You'll find the crossover on your Pioneer to be quite high for the sub, so get a good sub that handles higher frequencies well.

Also when you connect it, set the crossover on the subwoofer to maximum, you want to bypass the subs own crossover as the HTIB amp sends a filtered signal on the sub speaker outputs, probably 160hz-200hz and below

andreaaaaaa · 20 Jan 2018 at 23:54

Marsman said:
Wharfedale SW150 can be had from SuperFi for £150 and has speaker level input.

Thanks! I'm in Italy, unfortunately that model is not on sale here

hornetstinger said:
As said, speaker level to RCA converter. You'll find the crossover on your Pioneer to be quite high for the sub, so get a good sub that handles higher frequencies well.

Also when you connect it, set the crossover on the subwoofer to maximum, you want to bypass the subs own crossover as the HTIB amp sends a filtered signal on the sub speaker outputs, probably 160hz-200hz and below

Thanks a lot really useful

lucid said:
That's always a challenge with these all-in-one kits. They're not designed for standard industry connections because that makers want it to be fool-proof.

Is the old sub dead, past it or lost? Chop off the plug leaving a tail. Connect via something as elegant ( ) as this.

That's a good suggestion, but I'd rather not hack things apart...

Guys what about this other YAMAHA Subwoofer NS-SW200: it's a bit above my budget but has speaker level inputs. Also should be a bit better than the NS-SW100. Its speaker level input is left and right channels, would I plug only one of the two (fe left only) ?

hornetstinger · 21 Jan 2018 at 00:00

What about bk gemini or xls200? Better quality and build than Yamaha subs

andreaaaaaa · 21 Jan 2018 at 00:11

hornetstinger said:
What about bk gemini or xls200? Better quality and build than Yamaha subs

can't find either on sale in italy

damn

hornetstinger · 21 Jan 2018 at 00:16

Yamaha is 8". Pretty crap really. consider another sub?
Maybe second svs? Svs sb1000 or sb2000 or svs sb12+

I've had a few svs subs and recommend them.

lucid · 21 Jan 2018 at 00:43

andreaaaaaa said:
Thanks! I'm in Italy, unfortunately that model is not on sale here

Guys what about this other YAMAHA Subwoofer NS-SW200: it's a bit above my budget but has speaker level inputs.

Let's just stand back and look at this objectively for a second. The head unit is all-in-one DVD player/amplifier. They were built to a price, and they were never designed to be upgraded. Just look at the speaker connectors. They are proprietary to the system. If Pioneer meant for this to be used with an external sub then don't you think they'd have put spring clip terminals or a proper subwoofer out connection on the thing?

postadsuk.com-pioneer-surround-system-s-dv222-speakers-fife.JPG

You say you don't want to chop off the plug from the existing subwoofer. That suggests that the existing sub is still working. So this desire for a new sub is because you're unhappy with the level or quality of the bass, is that right?

Now you're proposing to spend £150+ on a sub to partner with a system that (1) was never designed to be upgraded, (2) will be a PITA to get a connection to the unit without butchering the existing cable, (3) is designed around the limits of its non-upgradeable speaker system, (4) has just one digital input - the Optical Line 2 connection.

I can't help feeling that this is a lot of work to put the cart before the horse.

If the existing sub is broken then there's no reason to make the job harder than it has to be; just chop the plug off. If it's not broken but you're unhappy with the performance, then wouldn't it be better to save up, then upgrade to something altogether more modern when funds allow?

andreaaaaaa · 21 Jan 2018 at 11:43

lucid said:
Let's just stand back and look at this objectively for a second. The head unit is all-in-one DVD player/amplifier. They were built to a price, and they were never designed to be upgraded. Just look at the speaker connectors. They are proprietary to the system. If Pioneer meant for this to be used with an external sub then don't you think they'd have put spring clip terminals or a proper subwoofer out connection on the thing?

You say you don't want to chop off the plug from the existing subwoofer. That suggests that the existing sub is still working. So this desire for a new sub is because you're unhappy with the level or quality of the bass, is that right?

Now you're proposing to spend £150+ on a sub to partner with a system that (1) was never designed to be upgraded, (2) will be a PITA to get a connection to the unit without butchering the existing cable, (3) is designed around the limits of its non-upgradeable speaker system, (4) has just one digital input - the Optical Line 2 connection.

I can't help feeling that this is a lot of work to put the cart before the horse.

If the existing sub is broken then there's no reason to make the job harder than it has to be; just chop the plug off. If it's not broken but you're unhappy with the performance, then wouldn't it be better to save up, then upgrade to something altogether more modern when funds allow?

You're very right and I understand that my choice of upgrading only the sub does not make 100% sense from a quality point of view, becaue my system is cheap.

My old sub is not busted: it still works, I just want to upgrade to a better one, still in the cheap budget range. I figured that moving from the 50 euros to the 150 would earn me a bit more quality. I know we're still very far from real quality.

I've looked into buying a new all in one Home Theater, but they all look cheap. And say I buy a 500euros kit, I can't tell if it will be really better than my current kit. They add silly features like bluetooth, which i don't need, and it seems to me only to bump the price up a notch.

I know I could build my own system, getting separate (decent) quality components. Cost here goes a lot higher of course.

So I resolved to upgrade the sub. At a later time, I can still buy a new receiver and satellites.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: on a unit like this: http://www.tronios.com/en/shfs10b-active-subwoofer-10-black.html
It has left and right speaker level inputs; would I wire my Pioneer to just one, for example left?

hornetstinger · 21 Jan 2018 at 13:00

Doesn't matter if you wire to left or right on the sub side.

andreaaaaaa · 21 Jan 2018 at 13:29

Ok good, thanks.

I know we're still talking cheap level, but if I were to narrow it down to a cheap 10" like this, and a Magnat like this that looks a bit better but is 8"
what would you advice between cheap 10" and slightly less cheap 8" ?
Does it make any sense?
Thanks

hornetstinger · 21 Jan 2018 at 17:14

Personally I'd get neither. Why not save up for a semi decent one so when you do replace the main AV amp with a standard AVR, you already have a decent sub.

Maybe one this these two
https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-1000

Why buy a fart woofer, to "make do" with it, and when you do upgrade, you'll need a new sub. So you spent £100 on a crap sub then spent £300+ on a better sub, best to spend the initially money on a good sub in the first place

lucid · 21 Jan 2018 at 18:39

andreaaaaaa said:
You're very right and I understand that my choice of upgrading only the sub does not make 100% sense from a quality point of view, becaue my system is cheap.

My old sub is not busted: it still works, I just want to upgrade to a better one, still in the cheap budget range. I figured that moving from the 50 euros to the 150 would earn me a bit more quality. I know we're still very far from real quality.

I've looked into buying a new all in one Home Theater, but they all look cheap. And say I buy a 500euros kit, I can't tell if it will be really better than my current kit. They add silly features like bluetooth, which i don't need, and it seems to me only to bump the price up a notch.

I know I could build my own system, getting separate (decent) quality components. Cost here goes a lot higher of course.

So I resolved to upgrade the sub. At a later time, I can still buy a new receiver and satellites.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: on a unit like this: http://www.tronios.com/en/shfs10b-active-subwoofer-10-black.html
It has left and right speaker level inputs; would I wire my Pioneer to just one, for example left?

I'm betting that your Pioneer wasn't cheap. Within the market for all-in-one systems, Pioneer was a cut above the rest. The system design looks like it dates from the early to mid 2000's when DVD was still a hot commodity and when Pioneer was king of the hill in TV sets.

The point is it was designed with a certain set of goals in mind: Small size for the head unit and speakers to be domestically acceptable, integrated DVD, MP3 playback, a big wattage figure. All of these things designed to appeal to a certain type of buyer who might not know about separates AV gear, or if they did then it wouldn't be acceptable on size grounds. So, it's not about price but more about design intent.

As you've correctly pointed out, today's all-in-one systems continue the trend of leading with trending features - Bluetooth, wireless subs, App features etc, and this is done at the expense of audio quality and flexibility which are seen as lower priorities for the target market. Separates - even the entry-level gear - are built with a greater focus on sound performance. It's a different set of design criteria rather than the absolute of price that makes the bigger difference.

The bottom line is that whichever powered sub you go for, it's likely to be an upgrade from the Pioneer one. The reasons are simple: 8" or 10" driver vs 6" for the Pioneer. . Built-in power supply matched to the driver. Better built and more rigid speaker cabinet. Greater bass extension. Precision controls for volume, phase and crossover point.

andreaaaaaa · 21 Jan 2018 at 20:57

hornetstinger said:
Personally I'd get neither. Why not save up for a semi decent one so when you do replace the main AV amp with a standard AVR, you already have a decent sub.

Maybe one this these two
https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-1000

Why buy a fart woofer, to "make do" with it, and when you do upgrade, you'll need a new sub. So you spent £100 on a crap sub then spent £300+ on a better sub, best to spend the initially money on a good sub in the first place

They go for 700 on amazon.it Man those are expensive lol. Thanks for the advice but really it's not a price tag i'd spend on a single piece of equipment. I don't want to go second hand. There's really a big jump from the cheap consumer level to the entry level stuff.

lucid said:
I'm betting that your Pioneer wasn't cheap. Within the market for all-in-one systems, Pioneer was a cut above the rest. The system design looks like it dates from the early to mid 2000's when DVD was still a hot commodity and when Pioneer was king of the hill in TV sets.

The point is it was designed with a certain set of goals in mind: Small size for the head unit and speakers to be domestically acceptable, integrated DVD, MP3 playback, a big wattage figure. All of these things designed to appeal to a certain type of buyer who might not know about separates AV gear, or if they did then it wouldn't be acceptable on size grounds. So, it's not about price but more about design intent.

As you've correctly pointed out, today's all-in-one systems continue the trend of leading with trending features - Bluetooth, wireless subs, App features etc, and this is done at the expense of audio quality and flexibility which are seen as lower priorities for the target market. Separates - even the entry-level gear - are built with a greater focus on sound performance. It's a different set of design criteria rather than the absolute of price that makes the bigger difference.

The bottom line is that whichever powered sub you go for, it's likely to be an upgrade from the Pioneer one. The reasons are simple: 8" or 10" driver vs 6" for the Pioneer. . Built-in power supply matched to the driver. Better built and more rigid speaker cabinet. Greater bass extension. Precision controls for volume, phase and crossover point.

My dad bought the Pioneer it was a mid of the table thing in the dvd era, so I'd say some 300 euros? For a complete 5.1 kit so I wasn't expecting real quality of course. And it does look like they made choices to restrict my ability to upgrade and eventually just get a new all-in-one kit.

Guys thanks a lot for all the help and advice, much appreciated. I think i'll get one of the last I posted, min-max choice keeping the expense low. In the future I might start something more serious.

hornetstinger · 21 Jan 2018 at 21:04

No they are most affordable from svs line.
Flagship are there monsters

http://svsound.it/subwoofer/svs-pb-ported-cabinet/pb16-ultra.html
and
http://svsound.it/subwoofer/svs-sb-sealed-cabinet/sb16-ultra.html