Nvidia partners discontinued GTX285 and GTX275

[Greebo]

.

I simply can't believe that Nvidia would wind down supply of the high end parts if Fermi high ends parts were not imminent, it makes no business sense.

Only in so far as annoying your partners but as for business in general, there is little point in selling a card for less money than it costs you to make them which is where they are currently with the 260-275 range.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Ouch, they taking a risk the partners expecting to sell millions of the GT300's, so ordering them up by the bucket load, be screwed when they see em stuck on shelves as they £500-£600, so no ones buying em, probably be even more as we got the VAT to go to about 20% as well as yet.

Theres no way in hell they'll sell millions of Fermi's, assuming Fermi is the term used for the high end version. GPu's simply don't sell that well in the high end, exponentially less people can afford a £300+ gpu over a £200+ gpu, and very few people actually need them aswell.

Problem being, if they want to compete on prices, the GT300 even at £300 might turn next to no profit, if its £400-500 and makes a profit, sales will be awful.

This is the thing, orders might be high for Fermi, but high for a £300+ card, will be 100k, thats not going to make up for 2-3million missing sales in the £100-250 price range.

They need a cut down fermi in the £150 price range to claw sales back, but we're months and months away from that, and the overly large design will be problematic, just like trying to make a GT200 based low end card with only 48sp's, its a HUGE core for its power, and expensive and can't compete.

The hope is that Nvidia can make any core at any price from the Fermi design that can be competitive for the cost, thats not a certainty at all.

The simple fact is that A Fermi core with half the shaders, is going to be WAY bigger than a 5770 core.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Only in so far as annoying your partners but as for business in general, there is little point in selling a card for less money than it costs you to make them which is where they are currently with the 260-275 range.

THe question is now much does it lose. Do you lose less money taking a £10 loss on millions of cards but keeping your market share, and contracts with the likes of Dell/HP etc etc, who are already smegged off with them, than you do pulling out completely. Sure you don't actively make losses on the cards, but you're paying staff, with almost no income, you're paying out R&D with almost no income, you're losing market share which means when you do have a product, less people are ordering it.

Its almost always better to keep up appearances for a small loss, than pull out altogether. One way minimises short terms losses, staying in the market maximise short term loss, but minimise's long term trouble. The fact they've pulled out to minimise short term loss but risk severly hurting themselves long term is, telling, to say the least.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Yeah they rekon their mid-range Fermi's (the cards to battle the 5770/50's), are not due till about March 2010, ouch

 

[Temi_D]

WHAT?? VAT is getting raised to 20%??? Who said that?

 

[TheGamingGeneral]

WHAT?? VAT is getting raised to 20%??? Who said that?

Seems likely, I work for HMRC, and although I havent heard anything specific and I dont work in the VAT department, based on the rumblings that are going on within the revenue, it will probably go to 20%, although maybe not straight away.

 

[Greebo]

Where have you been? Right from the beginning when it was dropped there was lots of talk it would have to go back up to 20% at some point. It is only scheduled to go to 17.5% on 1st January atm which means the GT300 will already be 2.5% more expensive to us, however that year of having VAT at 15% has to be paid back somehow and the books don't balance at the moment.

So the expected rate of VAT will be 20% at some point. It's either that or income tax goes up (both could still happen)

Let's face it VAT makes more sense as it's a "luxury" tax and doesn't apply to essentials like food so the theory goes that nobody is making you buy the new shiny graphics cards for games but if you are going to spend the money then you will have to pay the tax on it.

 

[TAC4U]

WHAT?? VAT is getting raised to 20%??? Who said that?

It was very obvious. The VAT cut always seemed like a transparent scheme to permanently raise the VAT level after the worst of the recession, as at 17.5% ours was relatively low in comparison to other EU countries. A small drop to generate positive headlines and an easy excuse to raise it afterwards.

 

[WJA96]

that's a very good point actually. If they are offering long term warranties and the parts are no longer obtainable, what are they supposed to replace duff ones with?

Money. They essentially insure themselves against the cards failing. When you RMA a card they tell the insurance company and the insurers pay for a new one (at cost). If you read the warranty they will replace the card with the equivalent (or better) or refund at their option. If the insurance money can't buy you a new card, they will offer a financial settlement based on how much use you've had from the card. So on a 10-year guarantee I would expect to see a 90% refund after 1 year, 80% after 2 years etc.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

They only dropped it to 15% for a year to get people out spending, as no one was, so they made things cheaper by losing money for a year, then its going back to 17.5%, and then its going up higher at some point, so they can get back what they lost the past year at 15%, was all known at the start when they cut it, as they will have to get that money back.

 

[RavenXXX2]

I bet they don't put it up until after the election.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

I bet they don't put it up until after the election.

Yeah that'll be right, if they put it up before hand, they probs guaranteed to lose.

Mind you going to lose anyway labour imo.

 

[fornowagain]

AMD Briefing With Eric Demers

We have posted an AMD slide deck that was the basis of a meeting with AMD GPU CTO Eric Demers yesterday. Some interesting points are being made by AMD.

 

[MR.B]

@ the "charlie was right" people:
Charlie was not right, NV are not leaving the high end, and a few people thought NV were going out of the high end business for good, for ever. People were pointing out that NV obviously would not do that, which they are not.

And from Anand...

Less than a week later and there were stories everywhere about NVIDIA’s GT200b shortages. Fudo said that NVIDIA was unwilling to drop prices low enough to make the cards competitive. Charlie said that NVIDIA was going to abandon the high end and upper mid range graphics card markets completely.

NVIDIA could get into a price war with AMD, but given that both companies make their chips at the same place, and NVIDIA’s costs are higher - it’s not a war that makes sense to fight.

NVIDIA told me two things. One, that they have shared with some OEMs that they will no longer be making GT200b based products. That’s the GTX 260 all the way up to the GTX 285. The EOL (end of life) notices went out recently and they request that the OEMs submit their allocation requests asap otherwise they risk not getting any cards.

The second was that despite the EOL notices, end users should be able to purchase GeForce GTX 260, 275 and 285 cards all the way up through February of next year.

If you look carefully, neither of these statements directly supports or refutes the two articles above. NVIDIA is very clever.

NVIDIA’s explanation to me was that current GPU supplies were decided on months ago, and in light of the economy, the number of chips NVIDIA ordered from TSMC was low. Demand ended up being stronger than expected and thus you can expect supplies to be tight in the remaining months of the year and into 2010.

Board vendors have been telling us that they can’t get allocations from NVIDIA. Some are even wondering whether it makes sense to build more GTX cards for the end of this year.

If you want my opinion, it goes something like this. While RV770 caught NVIDIA off guard, Cypress did not. AMD used the extra area (and then some) allowed by the move to 40nm to double RV770, not an unpredictable move. NVIDIA knew they were going to be late with Fermi, knew how competitive Cypress would be, and made a conscious decision to cut back supply months ago rather than enter a price war with AMD.

Charlie is a moron, and people should stop posting his rants.

And before one of the many immature ATI 'fanboys' on these forums call me a NV 'fanboy' for proving you all wrong... i dont have a NV card, i've got two 5870's.

 

[Final8y]

@ the "charlie was right" people:
Charlie was not right, NV are not leaving the high end, and a few people thought NV were going out of the high end business for good, for ever. People were pointing out that NV obviously would not do that, which they are not.

And from Anand...

[/B]



Charlie is a moron, and people should stop posting his rants.

And before one of the many immature fanboy ATI trolls on these forums call me a NV fanboy for proving you all wrong... i dont have a NV card, i've got two 5870's.

Try not to go with the pre-emptive strike by calling people fanboys before even anyone has replied & its not needed even after they have replied, it comes across as not being confident that your comment is strong enough in its message.
Fanboy was invented by juveniles, so liberal use of the word is not advised.

 

[drunkenmaster]

@ the "charlie was right" people:
Charlie was not right, NV are not leaving the high end, and a few people thought NV were going out of the high end business for good, for ever. People were pointing out that NV obviously would not do that, which they are not.

And from Anand...

[/B]



Charlie is a moron, and people should stop posting his rants.

And before one of the many immature ATI 'fanboys' on these forums call me a NV 'fanboy' for proving you all wrong... i dont have a NV card, i've got two 5870's.

You do realise fanboys took him as saying they were getting out completely,because fanboys always read what they want into whatever anyone says, he never said forever, he said in this fight they are killing those cards completely.

As for stock being around till Feb, try READING what Charlie wrote. Two pieces, one saying their being no stock was A LIE, yes he said there IS stock floating around, he said the no stock anywhere, is a fake, a cover, Nvidia holding the stock and you can see why now. They've EOL'd the cards, no more manufacturers are getting the cards, BFG/EVGA aren't getting the remaining stock. So lets see, Charlie said, they have stock, correct, lets see, Charlie said they were going to EOL the cards and you can't buy them in retail soon enough, hmmm, yup corrent also.

So where is the current stock Charlie said they'd have going, to Dell/HP to put in one line of rigs that will be expensive, not sell very well and last till, Feb. Shocking, can you please explain to me, or show me where Charlie said the cards going EOL, meant there would never be a single card available in the world instantly, especially as he said, there was indeed quite a bit of stock banging around?]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10...x275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market/

You do notice him talking about Fermi, mid and low end Fermi's and when they'll be out, mentioning they'll still be fairly poor on price because they'll be massive. Hardly makes sense for someone who is saying they are abondoning both markets for ever, to mention both their future high and mid end cards in the very same article? I also fail to see the words "forever" or "completely" in a line where he says the are abondoning the markets.

He also said they'd likely EOL at least the 275GTX, 285gtx one or both within a couple weeks, spot on, the 260GTX within a month or two with the only part still going the 295gtx. Read the other article, the entire article is about the fact Nvidia DO HAVE STOCK, and the lack of stock and lack of parts making it to guys like BFG/EVGA and prefered partners, (with those guys admitting to canceling all orders on the EOL cards now) pretty much proves they won't sell them. I would expect they are not only just for Dell/HP to keep up appearances in the OEM, but a few for 295GTX's, because theres a few saps willing to buy them, but also a few spare for RMA's.

 

[dangerstat]

Anyone point me to an official NV statement about all this yet?

 

[rhys216]

Anyone point me to an official NV statement about all this yet?

Why Lol!.......... Wait you actaully trust them to tell the truth?
First thing an Nvidia member of staff told the press was that there was ZERO truth in the story i.e. THEY LIED only to have their angry partners confirm the news.

"Headlines like Charlie is writing now should not go unanswered, so we asked NVIDIA for an official statement as to this topic so we could publish it for [H] readers, and here it is from Ken Brown at NVIDIA PR:

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for asking.

There is no truth to this. Charlie has become a sponsored site of his sole advertiser. It's no coincidence his website looks like an AMD ad.

Please let your readers know, and let us know if you have any more questions.

Thanks."



http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/10/07/nvidia_abandons_market6363636363

 

[rhys216]

You do realise fanboys took him as saying they were getting out completely,because fanboys always read what they want into whatever anyone says, he never said forever, he said in this fight they are killing those cards completely.

As for stock being around till Feb, try READING what Charlie wrote. Two pieces, one saying their being no stock was A LIE, yes he said there IS stock floating around, he said the no stock anywhere, is a fake, a cover, Nvidia holding the stock and you can see why now. They've EOL'd the cards, no more manufacturers are getting the cards, BFG/EVGA aren't getting the remaining stock. So lets see, Charlie said, they have stock, correct, lets see, Charlie said they were going to EOL the cards and you can't buy them in retail soon enough, hmmm, yup corrent also.

So where is the current stock Charlie said they'd have going, to Dell/HP to put in one line of rigs that will be expensive, not sell very well and last till, Feb. Shocking, can you please explain to me, or show me where Charlie said the cards going EOL, meant there would never be a single card available in the world instantly, especially as he said, there was indeed quite a bit of stock banging around?]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10...x275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market/

You do notice him talking about Fermi, mid and low end Fermi's and when they'll be out, mentioning they'll still be fairly poor on price because they'll be massive. Hardly makes sense for someone who is saying they are abondoning both markets for ever, to mention both their future high and mid end cards in the very same article? I also fail to see the words "forever" or "completely" in a line where he says the are abondoning the markets.

He also said they'd likely EOL at least the 275GTX, 285gtx one or both within a couple weeks, spot on, the 260GTX within a month or two with the only part still going the 295gtx. Read the other article, the entire article is about the fact Nvidia DO HAVE STOCK, and the lack of stock and lack of parts making it to guys like BFG/EVGA and prefered partners, (with those guys admitting to canceling all orders on the EOL cards now) pretty much proves they won't sell them. I would expect they are not only just for Dell/HP to keep up appearances in the OEM, but a few for 295GTX's, because theres a few saps willing to buy them, but also a few spare for RMA's.

+1 Seems all these Charlie haters are not big enough to give him the apology he deserves after being viscously called a LIER. The man isn't always correct, but he get's it right more often than Nvidia's PR team.

 

[Lightnix]

AMD Briefing With Eric Demers

We have posted an AMD slide deck that was the basis of a meeting with AMD GPU CTO Eric Demers yesterday. Some interesting points are being made by AMD.

Ahahahah, AMD's quoting ability is absolute class.