OcUK Dadsnet thread

[Minstadave]

So are you claiming you know better about child birth than a midwife does?

My mind has always been open. I just champion the idea of home birth and was retorting to the closed mind statement by Rob that "home births are stupid" and that "home births increase risk" when as a matter of fact the experts in child birth (midwives) and the NHS all state contrary to that.

I wouldn't say I know better about the process of child birth, I don't deliver babies myself. I do have quite extensive experience however of what goes wrong in child birth and have looked after many babies injured in the process both at home and in hospital. I have also been to many hundreds of deliveries in the last 10 years, so I've seen pretty much everything to be seen.

Midwives are brilliant until things go wrong, I've heard it said that they simply spectate the normal birthing process, which is a harsh but has a tiny bit of truth in it.

From what you've said so far, to me it seems you have a one sided view of homebirth, and that's fine. The admittedly rare times I've seen home births go wrong they go wrong more spectacularly than in hospital, particularly for the infant.

The data is also quite hard to interpret, often finding no significant risk difference between homebirths and hospital births but the women are different in each group. The home birth group are a select group of lower risk deliveries whilst the hospital group includes all the complex deliveries. If there was no difference in the risk between a home birth and a hospital birth you'd expect homebirths to have fewer complications on average simply because the hospital births are more complex, however the data either shows the risk is equivalent or increased depending on the main studies. I haven't seen a study that tries to account for this but I'm sure someone will have done it.

You keep mentioning homebirths dont increase risk. Overall they definitely do. If you select well (and simply being low risk I would argue is not adequate) then the risk is acceptable to many. Which is from memory what the RCOG say. My main concern about it is that the risks are rarely explained to Mums properly.

 

[RoboCod]

Yes I did pretty much say that...

The NHS website states there is no increased risk for a home birth over hospital births. We've consulted several midwives, the experts in pregnancy and child birth, and they've all echoed this. Doctors are for if things go wrong, I don't believe they know better than midwives about pregnancy and child birth. Given a midwife will identify any issue early on, they'll be taken to a hospital if required. It's hardly like we live in the outback ffs!

Having scoured some more publications on the matter, there are studies that do indeed tally with your suggestion that there should be fewer incidents with home births since they only usually consist low risk groups as opposed to hospitals that consist all manner of challenges.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2742137/

The rate of perinatal death per 1000 births was 0.35 (95% confidence interval [CI] 0.00–1.03) in the group of planned home births; the rate in the group of planned hospital births was 0.57 (95% CI 0.00–1.43) among women attended by a midwife and 0.64 (95% CI 0.00–1.56) among those attended by a physician. Women in the planned home-birth group were significantly less likely than those who planned a midwife-attended hospital birth to have obstetric interventions (e.g., electronic fetal monitoring, relative risk [RR] 0.32, 95% CI 0.29–0.36; assisted vaginal delivery, RR 0.41, 95% 0.33–0.52) or adverse maternal outcomes (e.g., third- or fourth-degree perineal tear, RR 0.41, 95% CI 0.28–0.59; postpartum hemorrhage, RR 0.62, 95% CI 0.49–0.77). The findings were similar in the comparison with physician-assisted hospital births. Newborns in the home-birth group were less likely than those in the midwife-attended hospital-birth group to require resuscitation at birth (RR 0.23, 95% CI 0.14–0.37) or oxygen therapy beyond 24 hours (RR 0.37, 95% CI 0.24–0.59). The findings were similar in the comparison with newborns in the physician-assisted hospital births; in addition, newborns in the home-birth group were less likely to have meconium aspiration (RR 0.45, 95% CI 0.21–0.93) and more likely to be admitted to hospital or readmitted if born in hospital (RR 1.39, 95% CI 1.09–1.85).

The fact of the matter is though, in all instances, the proportion of negative outcomes are very low. So to sensationalise and state that home birth increases risk is just disingenuous, it's like saying eating a bacon sandwich will give you a heart attack. It puts people off considering the actual facts and weighing up what is right for them when in fact, going to hospital is probably the worst place to be for many.

An important point to note is that even though the risk associated with home births seems greatly elevated in women going through their first pregnancy, the absolute risks were still relatively low. To put this into context, they occurred in 39 of the 4,488 women who delivered their first child at home, and 36 of the 4,063 women who delivered their first child at home without complicating conditions at the start of labour.

 

[Unseul]

So we're starting off with a likely already biased group at home of people that have no obvious extra risk, otherwise they would do it. Then even with that its about the same as in a hospital where they do have the higher risk cases too.

And quite simply 1% is far too blooming high for me when it comes to my wide and child being in a risky situation due to not beingin the hospital.

 

[RoboCod]

So we're starting off with a likely already biased group at home of people that have no obvious extra risk, otherwise they would do it. Then even with that its about the same as in a hospital where they do have the higher risk cases too.

And quite simply 1% is far too blooming high for me when it comes to my wide and child being in a risky situation due to not beingin the hospital.

Correct, you can't plan a home birth if she's classed high risk.

Like I said though, it's horses for courses. If she's classed as low risk and you're making the decision based solely on risk though, you're probably worrying about the wrong things. My conclusion was 'whatever makes her happiest'... And planning for hospital was certainly not it. Everyone has a differing view, it doesn't really matter.

 

[kinger8938]

Anyone else have a little one starting school this year?

Have a question relating to toilet shenanigans. Our son is usually fine, takes himself to the loo when he needs to and has never had a wet night since being trained.

That said he still can be known to wee himself when he gets super hyper or laughs historically. With school approaching I Imagine it's only normal to worry about how they will handle themselves with this stuff at school.

Anyone having similar concerns? How "normal" is it? I'm sure it's fine but we want him to be able to run around with out having to remind him to calm down etc just incase

 

[theone8181]

Anyone else have a little one starting school this year?

Have a question relating to toilet shenanigans. Our son is usually fine, takes himself to the loo when he needs to and has never had a wet night since being trained.

That said he still can be known to wee himself when he gets super hyper or laughs historically. With school approaching I Imagine it's only normal to worry about how they will handle themselves with this stuff at school.

Anyone having similar concerns? How "normal" is it? I'm sure it's fine but we want him to be able to run around with out having to remind him to calm down etc just incase

My daughter just finished year 1, but I'm sure some of the kids when she started reception still wore nappies.

 

[Unseul]

Anyone else have a little one starting school this year?

Have a question relating to toilet shenanigans. Our son is usually fine, takes himself to the loo when he needs to and has never had a wet night since being trained.

That said he still can be known to wee himself when he gets super hyper or laughs historically. With school approaching I Imagine it's only normal to worry about how they will handle themselves with this stuff at school.

Anyone having similar concerns? How "normal" is it? I'm sure it's fine but we want him to be able to run around with out having to remind him to calm down etc just incase

My son has always had some sensory issues, one of them being toilet related. Before he started we were really concerned, thankfully he seemed to be fine, no obvious accidents whilst he was there. He still has some troubles now and is 8 (got worse with the home schooling etc, he's not bothering to check himself as much).

My advice, tell the teacher. Teachers aren't there to potty train, but any teacher in the first few years of school is going to be aware that accidents happen, and some children will be more prone. Ask them to remind your child, or tell your child to check themselves, or just plain tell them to go to the loo at every break time etc. They may or may not do it, but I suspect it's in their interests as much as the childs to try and help them along!

 

[OZONE]

so what if he cries his eyes out. leave him crying to he worksa out crying does nothing to aid him. DO NOT GIVE IN
#thankmelater

I am happy to report that this strategy is working well!

 

[LewisRaz]

How are the other dads with newborns coping with the heat?

Mostly hiding indoors with all the curtains/blinds shut and 3 fans in the room. Still hitting high 20s! Baby has pretty much not worn clothes yet.

 

[Minstadave]

How are the other dads with newborns coping with the heat?

Mostly hiding indoors with all the curtains/blinds shut and 3 fans in the room. Still hitting high 20s! Baby has pretty much not worn clothes yet.

Same for us, thinking about getting an AC unit.

 

[dl8860]

How are the other dads with newborns coping with the heat?

Mostly hiding indoors with all the curtains/blinds shut and 3 fans in the room. Still hitting high 20s! Baby has pretty much not worn clothes yet.

It's tough, I remember a few very hot days not long after ours was born 2 years ago. It wasn't as bad as this though, I feel for you! I'm having a bad time just sat at my desk let alone with a little hot water bottle in arms!

A damp cloth is really good at dissipating heat, both for you and the bebe!

 

[LewisRaz]

I just took the "gro egg" down to our lounge where we spend the day and its actually 30.7!

@dl8860 Damp cloths kept in mini fridge are being used

 

[uncle_rufus]

Knowing our 1st was coming right in the summer was the justification we used for finally biting the bullet and getting a proper AC system installed in June... with my wife about to pop any day now I think she would have really been suffering in the heat right now so don't have any regrets

 

[Unseul]

Knowing our 1st was coming right in the summer was the justification we used for finally biting the bullet and getting a proper AC system installed in June... with my wife about to pop any day now I think she would have really been suffering in the heat right now so don't have any regrets

We were in a hotter country when planning for a baby, and although AC is common there, you can't AC the outside. If my wife hadn't conceived for a couple of extra months, we'd have stopped trying for a few. Can't imagine being heavily pregnant in high heats.

 

[godinman]

They're hardier than people think, as long as they're out of the sun, have plenty of skin exposed and drink plenty then they'll be reet.

 

[uncle_rufus]

They're hardier than people think, as long as they're out of the sun, have plenty of skin exposed and drink plenty then they'll be reet.

Sure, I guess my worry though was that our house would regularly reach 30+ even when it wasn't particularly hot outside, and that might make it really hard to settle the baby (and due to a problem which we couldn't really do anything about)

 

[NVP]

Three years ago today I almost lost my wife and son when he came 3 months earlier than expected. After spending the first 60days of his life in NICU as a tiny little gorilla he's now in the 90 odd percentile for his height and ridiculously smart with a huge vocabulary and absolutely full of love and joy, plus he has a little brother half his age who he adores and is more than reciprocated - best buddies

Makes me a very proud and happy daddy

Luv 2 u all x

 

[Minstadave]

Three years ago today I almost lost my wife and son when he came 3 months earlier than expected. After spending the first 60days of his life in NICU as a tiny little gorilla he's now in the 90 odd percentile for his height and ridiculously smart with a huge vocabulary and absolutely full of love and joy, plus he has a little brother half his age who he adores and is more than reciprocated - best buddies

Makes me a very proud and happy daddy

Luv 2 u all x

Happy Birthday to your little guy

 

[NVP]

Cheers fella Got an apartment on the beach for the week, he's absolutely loving it, they both are

 

[Pookie Bear]

Three years ago today I almost lost my wife and son when he came 3 months earlier than expected. After spending the first 60days of his life in NICU as a tiny little gorilla he's now in the 90 odd percentile for his height and ridiculously smart with a huge vocabulary and absolutely full of love and joy, plus he has a little brother half his age who he adores and is more than reciprocated - best buddies

Makes me a very proud and happy daddy

Luv 2 u all x

Happy Birthday, mini-NVP.

We had a few scares, and my wife held on to the pair of them so long it nearly broke her, but they're amazing - and I'm pleased your little lads are doing well!