1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ocuk Detectives...in ere please :)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Schizo, 22 Jan 2018.

  1. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    After the amazing help i got from this thread https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/team-dont-know.18808824/ and the outcome being dealt with very quickly (after a e-mail got sent to the Chief Executive Officer of currys) i need the help once again.

    I have some good friends who own a launderette and purchased £40,000 worth of new machines,2 months ago one machine broke down after 16 months,they are not having much luck with jla https://jla.com/laundry-equipment/washers and the part wont be ready until the end of February,They have e-mailed the company but no joy after a £600 engineer call out fee.the machine will be out of action for 3 months till the repair.

    Any detectives around that can supply another e-mail that might be of some use ;);)

    Cheers guys.
     
  2. Scrutinize

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 4 Apr 2003

    Posts: 7,663

    Commercial use on business to business sales is very different to retail.

    Was there no SLA for warranty or maintenance? Was there a supply T&C's? This needs to be established prior to purchase along with expected reliability/down time.

    I assume you mean 2 years ago purchased, not 2 months?

    If the company won't engage then it's a simple resolve through solicitors and courts. But it sounds like they are fixing it just awaiting parts. Unless the timescales breach the SLA, although even then consequential loses won't be covered and definitely not without legal representation. A business would normally manage its consequential loses through either cash provisions, insurances, loan equipment agreements or a watertight SLA which provides loan equipment.

    JLAs details are available but be useful to understand where your friend is on the contract & SLA.

    JLA also seem to offer a comprehensive SLA on service so I presume your friend didn't take this as he paid for call out/engineer. There is good reason commercial goods are sold as is or supported via an SLA.

    If your friend thought they were saving money by purchasing as is, then realistically unless they put contingency in place (loan machine) they need to review their business strategy and risk management.
     
    Last edited: 22 Jan 2018
  3. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    They are waiting for parts but the whole process has been dreadful,4 hours for a engineer to find the problem with help from the owners husband.
    Brand new machines that have only been on the market a short while and the engineer didn't know what to do.
    It has been broken down for 2 months now and it is 16 months old with a average use of 6 washes a day.
    They have free parts and have to pay for labour.
    It's the 3 month wait that is annoying.

    They phones the rep who said he could have a new machine installed in 2 weeks.

    Jla don't want to listen about the engineer not knowing what to do,the time its taken to get a part and the fact they will be left with a £1100 bill and loss of earnings over the 3 months.
     
  4. Scrutinize

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 4 Apr 2003

    Posts: 7,663

    This is going to sound harsh but that is the commercial world and a business must make sure it manages it's financial risks and key assets.

    No reason for loss of earnings as continuity plans should be in place such as a loan machine or the decision they can operate on one machine.

    Is 16 months a good life for one of these without breakdown?

    I appreciate small businesses rely on cash flow and capital can be tight.

    They need to run their purchase contract and SLA through a solicitors. Although a £1100 bill doesn't sound unreasonable on a £20k machine in 2 years as commercial products go. As for loss of earnings, I presume they have managed on 1 machine if only doing 6 washes per day. If revenue significantly dropped them they should have obtained a loan machine even if at a cost then sought loses against the contract.
     
  5. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    They have purchased 8 brand new machines from jla back in 2016,they are just concerned about the other machines going the same way with the fault the broken one has got.

    They just wanted a email that they can send to someone higher to get there point across and for someone to listen.
     
  6. Malt_Vinegar

    Don

    Joined: 20 Oct 2002

    Posts: 15,536

    Location: In a house

    I'm sorry the machine folded under the pressure. It must have left them in a spin! I hope you collar someone with suitably big trousers to deal with this for you. I'm sure they will come clean in the end, provided you keep the pressure on. However, don't get too shirty with them or they might make you put a sock in it!
     
  7. wedrum

    Soldato

    Joined: 11 Aug 2016

    Posts: 5,538

    Location: Cheshire

    they have been rinsed!!!!
     
  8. danoliver1

    Mobster

    Joined: 24 Aug 2005

    Posts: 3,401

    Location: MANC-chester

    Should you be airing their dirty laundry in public? :rolleyes:
     
  9. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    Lol :)
     
  10. Scrutinize

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 4 Apr 2003

    Posts: 7,663

    Before this though, what were the expectations of up-time set out in the supplier specs and agreed prior to purchase?

    What do they really want to achieve?

    It's no use sending a ranty email to one of their directors without a tangible reference point on contracted expectations. Especially if they are seeking consequential loses as this will be met with a very robust rebuttal and possibly a response from the solicitor rather than engaging.

    If your friend doesn't pay for the maintenance contract and the engineer was poor, why pay the engineer?

    I know it's seems like I am being unhelpful, I'm not. It's important to get the whole picture and if emailing or contacting the directors either a very pragmatic factual email or contact via solicitors. For all we know your friend was advised to take the full service SLA or that the machines up time without any intervention is x hours on 80% of machines and they are in spec.

    They are big company, contact and directors details are listed and also the registered address should be on the invoice. Is their any reason your friend hasn't pursued this themselves?
     
  11. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 2 Aug 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    How much would it cost just to get another new machine?

    Then you could have the broken one fixed at leisure and then have it as a spare in case of future problems. (I am guessing that "Loss of earnings" is likley to be the biggest cost here)
     
  12. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    They have e mailed jla but all they have been told is they have to pay,they are just a bit angry as to why such a large company can't get a machine fixed in a timely manner.
    I think 3 months is poor ( same with my TV) and with it being a new machine parts should be there for broken machines.

    I'm not sure on the cost of a new machine but they are big and they don't have anywhere to store another machine.
     
  13. #Chri5#

    Soldato

    Joined: 27 Feb 2003

    Posts: 7,001

    Location: Shropshire

    Can they find somebody else to repair it or source the part?

    If they are not happy with the service and there's no contractual way to escalate it for a quicker resolution, go elsewhere.
     
  14. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    Its all in jla hands now as the part is free but the labour has to be paid.
     
  15. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 2 Aug 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    That's probably why they are not,

    Tried to get an air filter for a late model Vauxhall Viva (Yes, Viva! Surprised me too :p ) on Saturday (From Vauxhall dealer). Non-stock item. (Oil and Cabin were, probably because they were less model specific, but not Air)

    Being a new model range commercial grade machine, Your mate is probably unlucky enough to have one of the first faulty ones so;

    a) Service engineer will have been totally unfamiliar with the machine and its fault modes, hence the long diagnosis.

    b) There is no ready stock of spares because almost nobody has needed any yet so there is not yet a list of "Common Spares" available to be held in local depots.

    He would likely have had far fewer issues had he bought "Last Years" Model.
     
  16. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    They are the new range of "smart machines" and they are just shocked one has broken down already with such a easy life so far.

    With buying new machines they didn't want another bills as they have spent quite a lot of money on the whole place.

    I'll have a dig about and see if I can find a e mail that might help them.
     
  17. Flanders

    Hitman

    Joined: 2 Nov 2004

    Posts: 571

    Location: London, UK

    You're not listening to the advice being given by @Scrutinize, who sounds like he knows what he is talking about - your friend's situation is entirely different to the TV incident you keep referring to.

    These are commercial products that were likely offered with a range of after care options at the time of purchase - and given that parts are non-chargeable some sort of agreement is in place. This document needs to be read carefully to ascertain what is legally deemed "too long to wait" for the part in question.

    To put it bluntly, emailing a director you find on Company's House is unlikely to get this matter resolved any quicker.
     
  18. Schizo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Feb 2008

    Posts: 13,658

    Location: Home

    I'm only the middle man man and have listened,I personally don't think its any different as a item has been purchased and not fit for purpose, be it a TV or industrial washing machine.
     
  19. Semple

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 5 Mar 2010

    Posts: 8,161

    Maybe not logically, but from a legal standpoint yes.

    It almost sounds like your friend hasn't spent a great deal on after-care with an SLA and are now paying the price for it.

    I know the support contracts on our servers range from a 4-hour call out upto a week i believe. If a customer hasn't paid for the 4-hour call out service, they don't get the 4-hour call out no matter how much they complain. The 4-hour call out service obviously comes at a higher cost.

    At the high-end of our product line the kit will cost you about $1-1.5million, a 3 year mission critical support contract will cost about the same.
     
  20. MikeTheNative

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 17 Jun 2012

    Posts: 8,722

    Location: South Wales

    Without anyone seeing the service contract or knowing exactly what was agreed there's not much anyone can suggest really.