Associate
The video has been edited to see the worse parts of it where they had to use force to try and control the reindeer, tbh the woman got really lucky that the antlers did not catch an artery on the neck.
OMG This is a ******* disgrace
- Thread starter thepharcyde
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Soldato
I wonder if that's how Rudolph got his famous red nose.
Soldato
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I don't get why the heck they spent so long wrestling with the animal. Couldn't they have tried to get out of there and let the animal calm down?
I'm fairly certain that that's not uncommon in the wild. Trimming of antlers is sometimes necessary. There's blood being pumped to the antlers but I don't think they have any real feeling in them. The reindeer's lucky to be alive.
Associate
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I don't think the keepers did anything wrong. If they had let go of the antlers to get away, the animal would have charged them again. Holding onto the animal until it had tired itself out with some nose bashing was the best thing they could do. It might think twice about trying it again.
Caporegime
Ive seen male deer sparring in the wild, antlers breaking off is very common, as for the keeper twisting its neck, thats nothing, when two male dear spar it's far more intense, theese animals have extremely strong neck muscles, look how it was fit to pin the keeper to the ground with it's antlers, all that power comes from the muscles in its neck.
Soldato
Zoo should be shut down for bad practice... and no not for the shovel whacking but because they haven't a clue.
You don't just wonder in to a hold where there is a reindeer and it's young, especially not with a wheelie bin. That is why the reindeer was so aggressive and why it didn't back down, it feared the safety of it's young and was going full force for a fight.
Shame it was only a slight injury the stupid ******* bint deserved getting speared, I hope she has learnt her lesson.
You don't just wonder in to a hold where there is a reindeer and it's young, especially not with a wheelie bin. That is why the reindeer was so aggressive and why it didn't back down, it feared the safety of it's young and was going full force for a fight.
Shame it was only a slight injury the stupid ******* bint deserved getting speared, I hope she has learnt her lesson.
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Commissario
Watching that video the level of force used doesn't seem excessive given it's:
A: a large animal with potentially lethal horns
B: It attacked a keeper with no warning/provocation - how dangerous is it now? (you can't turn your back on it for certain after what's shown in the first few seconds of the video)
C: For much of the video they seem to be trying to restrain it.
D: At about 2:14 one of the keepers appears to be calling for, or asking about a Vet.
With regards to the comments about why not use tranqs.
IIRC in the UK a tranq gun is classed as a fire-arm (or some are at least*), many of the drugs used in them are potentially very dangerous to humans, and/or restricted in use to people with the right qualifications (Vets etc), and administering a tranq using a gun is potentially very risky as the darts have the potential to injure the animal quite badly, and for the drug to be affective you have to hit it in the right place (hit fat and it won't be absorbed by the system fast enough, hit).
And that's before you get to the problems with the dosage for the animal, too much and you kill it, too little and it potentially just annoys it.
I suspect the case may be similar in Poland.
Also whilst most Zoo's will have vets either on call locally, or even on site during the day, given the size of some Zoo's it can take time for the vet (or trained personal) to make it to the site of an incident, even after they've spent the time collecting something like a tranq gun from where it's kept (probably a secure location, with the drugs kept separately in another secure cupboard or similar).
That's even assuming the Vet isn't busy with something else that can't be dropped safely at a moments notice (such as checking on more dangerous animals, treating an animal etc).
I suspect if it had been a known dangerous animal the keepers wouldn't have been in the pen with it loose, or would have had more people available (a reindeer is basically a herd animal, much like cattle, and like cattle usually fairly docile, but occasionally very dangerous).
I suspect the shovel being used probably isn't hurting it as much as it's normal natural behaviour might, but is being used more to try and surprise it to make it back off, sure it sounds like a hard whack, and looks nasty but as has been pointed out they are using the flat of it, and not exactly putting their all into swinging it when hitting it on the nose.
In the wild they butt heads with enough force to sometimes kill each other (2x 100kg* beasts hitting head on**), so the whack on the head with a shovel is very unlikely to cause much harm due to the low mass/force behind it.
As for trying to topple it over, it's probably a hundred kg at least, pushing it is more likely to make it side step than fall over
The holding onto the horns does much more to control them from what I've heard/read in the past (something to do with the neck muscles not being as strong when it comes to certain movements), so holding on not only helps immobilise the animal but keeps the biggest danger under control without causing lasting harm.
*going from what I remember reading years ago you need a licence and training to use them.
**No pun intended
A: a large animal with potentially lethal horns
B: It attacked a keeper with no warning/provocation - how dangerous is it now? (you can't turn your back on it for certain after what's shown in the first few seconds of the video)
C: For much of the video they seem to be trying to restrain it.
D: At about 2:14 one of the keepers appears to be calling for, or asking about a Vet.
With regards to the comments about why not use tranqs.
IIRC in the UK a tranq gun is classed as a fire-arm (or some are at least*), many of the drugs used in them are potentially very dangerous to humans, and/or restricted in use to people with the right qualifications (Vets etc), and administering a tranq using a gun is potentially very risky as the darts have the potential to injure the animal quite badly, and for the drug to be affective you have to hit it in the right place (hit fat and it won't be absorbed by the system fast enough, hit).
And that's before you get to the problems with the dosage for the animal, too much and you kill it, too little and it potentially just annoys it.
I suspect the case may be similar in Poland.
Also whilst most Zoo's will have vets either on call locally, or even on site during the day, given the size of some Zoo's it can take time for the vet (or trained personal) to make it to the site of an incident, even after they've spent the time collecting something like a tranq gun from where it's kept (probably a secure location, with the drugs kept separately in another secure cupboard or similar).
That's even assuming the Vet isn't busy with something else that can't be dropped safely at a moments notice (such as checking on more dangerous animals, treating an animal etc).
I suspect if it had been a known dangerous animal the keepers wouldn't have been in the pen with it loose, or would have had more people available (a reindeer is basically a herd animal, much like cattle, and like cattle usually fairly docile, but occasionally very dangerous).
I suspect the shovel being used probably isn't hurting it as much as it's normal natural behaviour might, but is being used more to try and surprise it to make it back off, sure it sounds like a hard whack, and looks nasty but as has been pointed out they are using the flat of it, and not exactly putting their all into swinging it when hitting it on the nose.
In the wild they butt heads with enough force to sometimes kill each other (2x 100kg* beasts hitting head on**), so the whack on the head with a shovel is very unlikely to cause much harm due to the low mass/force behind it.
As for trying to topple it over, it's probably a hundred kg at least, pushing it is more likely to make it side step than fall over
The holding onto the horns does much more to control them from what I've heard/read in the past (something to do with the neck muscles not being as strong when it comes to certain movements), so holding on not only helps immobilise the animal but keeps the biggest danger under control without causing lasting harm.
*going from what I remember reading years ago you need a licence and training to use them.
**No pun intended
Caporegime
As you point out Werewolf, tranquilisers are a last resort, they can often do more harm and they are classed as a weapon under uk law, probably even more so over here, in northern ireland, even an air rifle is classed as a section 1 firearm here, reindeer are normally a fairly docile animal, but during the breeding season the males become extremely aggressive, a contractor who i done some work for keeps a herd of 400 roe dear, much smaller than red deer, but non the less aggressive during breeding time.
When an animal is trying to kill someone the animals health would be my last concern, sedatives like diazepam are very safe, being almost impossible to overdose on due to their wide theraputic index. They are also administered using a blowpipe, not a gun. UK gun legislation is insane by international standards so I wouldn't personally use that to guess other countries laws either.
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To all the tree hugging fairies in this thread who think the zookeepers were in the wrong for defending themselves....seriously get a grip and take a look at yourselves. I for one hope none of your immediate family/friends are in a similar situation whereby you will stand by and watch whilst counselling said animal and giving advice to your mate whos being speared by a wild animal on how to take him down gently without brusing the creature.
RETARDS.
RETARDS.
Associate
Soldato
Harsh but true.
I really don't understand why some people value an animals life more than a humans life.