"Operation Unthinkable" by Winston Churchill

[Orcish-Horde]

So my question still stands; has anyone ever attacked Russia and come out of it better off?

Napoleon took Moscow, totaly defeated the Russian Army any time they meet and battle took place. He stay in Moscow for about 4 months but left it to late in the year to head home. Winter came in and he lost the bulk of his army, if he had of left Moscow a month earlyer we would all be speaking french now, from LondonDerry to Moscow.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Has anyone read the novel Fatherland by Robert Harris where an alternate history is depicted ?

This is Europe in 1964 in the book.

It's quite an interesting novel, the region as depicted is just about close enough to possible to be worrying but thankfully it's not a reality we've had to live through of course.

As for the original topic; it's a fascinating insight into some of the planning for eventualities that occurs even when nothing actually comes of it.

 

[XPE]

But didn't we have massive air superiority over the Russian with the UK being the only country with an operational jet fighter that may have even the odds for the ground forces.

Any way i think these were drawn up when the UK and USA didn't know is starlin was going to stop with when they had finished off Germany.

And don't kid yourself those German troops would have fought for us against the Russians

 

[Tefal]

i remember reading that the losses of the russian army were 3x more than the overall amount of people in the finnish army... or something like that

i think it was the weather that killed most of them though.

 

[pzr vr6]

More like operation impossible, Soviet tanks for example were far superior to anything the Allies had and they were pouring around the place in their thousands.

was there anything stopping the yanks making massive amounts of tigers/king tigers post war?

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Finland did not defeat Russia, instead succumbing to relentless Russian pressure even though they put up an heroic fight, which saved them from being absorbed into the USSR and instead leaving Russia happy with the annexing of the Karelian Isthmus and territory in Salla. If you want a chuckle, read about the Sausage War (and no, it ain't porno).

i think it was the weather that killed most of them though.

Finnish ski troops conducted hit and run tactics on Russian convoys and decimated them, often leaving corpses posed in the frozen forests, solidified by the cold. Waves of Russian troops where cut down by machine gun crews and many drowned when the Finns shelled the frozen lakes as the Russians moved over them. The weather killed some, but the Finns killed most.

The outcome of the Winter War would be humiliation of the Russian forces in the eyes of the world, Operation Barbarossa and the Continuation War. Even at the end of WWII, Russia was happy to accept Finlands offer of a cease fire and Finland did not fall into the hands of a Communist Dictatorship.

 

[silversurfer]

So my question still stands; has anyone ever attacked Russia and come out of it better off?

Japan is still at war with Russia

"The defeat of Russian forces in 1904 left a painful memory in the conscience of our people and a black stain on [on the reputation of] our country. For 40 years, we, the people of the older generation, have waited for this day, and now this day has come. It means that southern Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands will become part of the Soviet Union."

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1058753.html

 

[Gerard]

was there anything stopping the yanks making massive amounts of tigers/king tigers post war?

Materials mainly id assume. Majority of factories had been blown to pieces, plus the Tiger and King Tiger took a long time in production for each tank, the Soviets at one point in the war were firing out over a thousand T34's a month, closer to 1200 per month.

 

[wordy]

Seriously, has anyone in the history of mankind ever attacked Russia and come out better off?

Japan.

 

[Deleted member 61728]

Defeating the Russian army is one thing but occupying all of Russia is another just look at the shear scale of Russia on a globe logistics would be a nightmare.

 

[PapaLazaru]

Seriously, has anyone in the history of mankind ever attacked Russia and come out better off?

My fellow Countrymen did not attack, but successfully defend an attack from the Russians.

It was called, 'The Winter War'.

Read up. The story is awesome.

*edit*

Now seen previous posts. We ruled!

 

[cheets64]

Biggest mistake we and the yanks did was let Russia get to Moscow first, war was won, oh wait whats this Berlin Wall, Cold War, Cuban missle crisis, when you think about it WW2 was a war against evil with evil lying in wait.

 

[Amakuma]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä This guy laughs at your K2D ratios

 

[Gerard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä This guy laughs at your K2D ratios

I thought that pic of him hasn't loaded in properly for a second.

 

[Le_Petit_Lapin]

This is worth a look

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_tank

Soviet experiments
.....and the amphibious "hydro bus" into water. When the hydro bus disintegrated on landing, the chief designer and his assistant were strapped into the G-45 for a test drop; they survived, but the project was cancelled (Zaloga 1984:192).

Simply epic!

 

[GreatAuk]

And don't kid yourself those German troops would have fought for us against the Russians

But it wouldn't just be for us would it, I doubt they would want their beautiful Germany ruled by communists - they had a much worse reputation than 'we' did. It would have been as much for them as 'us'.

 

[qqg3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä This guy laughs at your K2D ratios

Bad ass.

A war with Russia was certinaly unthinkable, we would have been screwed.

 

[neoboy]

Not surprising really, everyone was starting to worry about the intention of the Soviet Union particularly since they gained such a momentum near the end of the war. At the time the Western powers weren't sure where they would stop.

As for Winter War the Russians made a very big mistake in the initial attack (as illustrated in that pic) and used the outdated tactics which basically resulted in a turkey shoot. When they came back for round II they actually used some of the German Blitzkrieg tactics, which would then be used on them in the near future.

 

[silversurfer]

Biggest mistake we and the yanks did was let Russia get to Moscow first, war was won, oh wait whats this Berlin Wall, Cold War, Cuban missle crisis, when you think about it WW2 was a war against evil with evil lying in wait.

But it wouldn't just be for us would it, I doubt they would want their beautiful Germany ruled by communists - they had a much worse reputation than 'we' did. It would have been as much for them as 'us'.

Bad ass.

A war with Russia was certinaly unthinkable, we would have been screwed.

We did fight Russia and it was unthinkable because we probably wouldnt have won without them.
I think it has to be hitlers greatest mistake though no big surprise he should never have done it, lucky he wasnt all there and axis strengths became weakness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgkJ85D5hAI

 

[Amakuma]

Someone needs to turn Unthinkable an adaptation of some sort. I for one love nerding out over what If eventualities