Parents - changes coming to government childcare contributions

[Freakbro]

I have the dfe operational guidance for local authorities and childcare providers, but it also mentions what the parents have to do in there

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/30-hours-free-childcare-la-and-early-years-provider-guide

 

[iamtheoneneo]

2 more years until 30 free hours. That will be a good day.

Isnt it sad as parents that this is even a thought. Our household income is good, but FML nursery still manages to absolutely sap your bank account.
Having children should not be this expensive if people want/have to work as well.

Cut disability benefits for people who can't work and give money to people who can work and already earn a decent income. Got it.

so you want the whole country to be a sess-pit? How about an alternative solution : invest in cracking down on benefit cheats (est 1.2billion) or tax fraud (billions) so that people who contribute or attempt to contribute to society fairly can get a half decent gov handout once in a ******* while.

 

[Freakbro]

I was at a meeting of area managers on Fri when someone pointed out people pay over £8/hr for dog walkers, over £6/hr for a baby sitter on a night out but baulk at paying £4/hr for their children's care and development

 

[theone8181]

I was at a meeting of area managers on Fri when someone pointed out people pay over £8/hr for dog walkers, over £6/hr for a baby sitter on a night out but baulk at paying £4/hr for their children's care and development

Typically people dont pay dog walkers all day tho, likewise for a babysitter. Also didnt realise you had to register for the 30 hours, which doesnt start till september.

 

[SpeedFreak]

I have the dfe operational guidance for local authorities and childcare providers, but it also mentions what the parents have to do in there

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/30-hours-free-childcare-la-and-early-years-provider-guide

Thanks, I managed to find a link as well.
https://childcare-support.tax.service.gov.uk/par/app/applynow

 

[Freakbro]

Typically people dont pay dog walkers all day tho, likewise for a babysitter.

I did say that But it's not really about the length of time but about what value people ascribe to things

Also didnt realise you had to register for the 30 hours, which doesnt start till september.

It's to assess your eligibility to receive the extra 15 hours, since it isn't universal. And why you then have to keep rechecking every 3 months.

It's a Govt implemented system....so it's pretty clunky. Hopefully they'll smooth it out once it gets up and running

 

[Energize]

You really don't seem to have a good grasp of the principles of an effective taxation system.

Having a different opinion of how the tax system should work != not understanding.

Firstly, one fundamental tactic of a successful tax system is to collect as much as you can in the first instance then control cash outflows directly, rather than reducing tax collected in the first place. Collecting less in the first instance is exactly what you avoid, especially with school funding, as asking people to pay themselves rather than through taxation will encourage the wrong behaviours (fewer people bothering).

Collecting as much tax as possible is exactly what we want to avoid because that puts people into the situation of needing benefits.

Secondly, there are literally hundreds of examples of things that are collected via taxation and subsequently refunded. Are you saying these should all be abolished due to the 'administration burden'?

Largely yes.

Thirdly, unless your proposal creates PAYE process efficiencies, you're not generating any administration savings by doing that. Reducing tax collected by a small amount doesn't reduce the cost of collecting the rest of the tax; there's no incremental cost to collecting primary school taxes as PAYE is taken by income bandings.

It's not the collecting of extra tax that costs money, the administration is in paying the tax back to people via various benefits. If we did not collect so much tax in the first place we would not need to pay it back.

 

[Energize]

Isnt it sad as parents that this is even a thought. Our household income is good, but FML nursery still manages to absolutely sap your bank account.
Having children should not be this expensive if people want/have to work as well.

Why? It is 100% a lifestyle choice, why should businesses reduce their prices?

so you want the whole country to be a sess-pit? How about an alternative solution : invest in cracking down on benefit cheats (est 1.2billion) or tax fraud (billions) so that people who contribute or attempt to contribute to society fairly can get a half decent gov handout once in a ******* while.

1.2 billion is a drop in the ocean, that's what less than £20 per citizen?

 

[Mark1989]

The whole system is broken when it comes to government help, I earn 9500 a year so I avoid tax, but Mrs earns just under 19k, we still find childcare expensive even for just 2 days a week it's 400 a month, he is 15month old so don't get any hours etc and not much help in regards to government funds. People who don't work at all imo should not be given any free childcare hours as if there just staying at home all day why do they need it or deserve it? We put our son in nursery for 2 reasons a) development b) so we could work, there is far too many leaches in our socitiy that just abuse the system with no intention of ever working yet get more help with kids than people who contribute to society and work and provide for there kids by actually working not expecting hand outs.

 

[Freakbro]

People who don't work at all imo should not be given any free childcare hours as if there just staying at home all day why do they need it or deserve it?

Because it's not a babysitting service for the parents it's early years education for the children, and society benefits overall from having well developed children growing into well developed adults.

Also you get the knock on effect of under developed children accessing primary school....and the pressure that puts on them.

We put our son in nursery for 2 reasons a) development b) so we could work, there is far too many leaches in our socitiy that just abuse the system with no intention of ever working yet get more help with kids than people who contribute to society and work and provide for there kids by actually working not expecting hand outs.

They don't get more help, currently they get exactly the same (and you are still viewing it as a baby sitting service so you can go to work - which it isn't) and when the 30 hrs come in, they will get less.

 

[mid_gen]

However, it's people's choice to have them. It's not mandatory to have children.
Then again, we have an aging population. With many families only having one child or none, we are going to get to a point in 50 years time where there aren't enough people to pay taxes to support the elderly.

I do wonder what people would do if they were told that if they do not have children, then they must fund their retirement themselves, healthcare, everything.

 

[SpeedFreak]

Children are a lifestyle choice? A holiday is a lifestyle choice, children are the future of civilisation.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I was at a meeting of area managers on Fri when someone pointed out people pay over £8/hr for dog walkers, over £6/hr for a baby sitter on a night out but baulk at paying £4/hr for their children's care and development

dog walkers come to you. whereas childcare you need to drop them off or pay for them to be collected. also dog walkers do it for like an hour or two max. your comparing apples with oranges. some people pay £60 an hour to get their windows cleaned. therefore using that rationale you could charge £100 an hour for child care as children are more important than windows.

 

[Mark1989]

Because it's not a babysitting service for the parents it's early years education for the children, and society benefits overall from having well developed children growing into well developed adults.

Also you get the knock on effect of under developed children accessing primary school....and the pressure that puts on them.



They don't get more help, currently they get exactly the same (and you are still viewing it as a baby sitting service so you can go to work - which it isn't) and when the 30 hrs come in, they will get less.

Not using it as a babysitting service at all, it has helped him in regards to development and social skills with other kids, it's worth every penny for that, however you see many a parents cheating system for various reasons whilst sitting at home doing **** all but they would get more help in regards to money than some one who works , you honestly think that's fair?

I work because I was brought up to know you work to get what you want not expect it given, I'll also tell my son the same when old enough you need to work etc, why do some people assume when you have a kid work should be given up? I don't work full time the Mrs does, I have friends who don't work who are perfectly healthy kids are 3 and benefits they get is more than my wage, you think that is a fair benefit system? I think your deluded if you do.


My over all point is people who work weather it's part time or full should be given some free hours, the whole you can have some if on xyz benefits it's daft it's not fair to people who work. If you earn something silly like 100k then I can see logic why government don't give you anything.

 

[EddScott]

Not using it as a babysitting service at all, it has helped him in regards to development and social skills with other kids, it's worth every penny for that, however you see many a parents cheating system for various reasons whilst sitting at home doing **** all but they would get more help in regards to money than some one who works , you honestly think that's fair?

It's pretty much always been that way. At least, from what I've seen.

When my eldest was growing up she was in creche so we could both work. We never had any money but our daughter clearly benefited from the interaction with others. My children's mum has many family members who don't work and will never work and have 2/3 kids and they always seemed to have money. One year, I kid ye not. We stayed at her aunties house for Christmas. Both of us working and our daughter had a small pile of presents. The aunty, with 4 kids and she didn't work and the partner cut grass and claimed and ducked and dived etc, each corner was stacked high with presents. Never forgotten that.

It's always been the case, if you have something, "they" will do what they can to take it off you. If you don't have anything "they" will provide it for you.


My youngest is 4 and has been in creche since being months old - there is only me now but that's a different story. We live in Wales and she was already able to count in Welsh and use basic Welsh words and singing in Welsh before going to school and is very sociable. You see some children who have been at home the first 4 years or so and they are much different, not better or worse as such just different.

 

[Freakbro]

Not using it as a babysitting service at all, it has helped him in regards to development and social skills with other kids, it's worth every penny for that, however you see many a parents cheating system for various reasons whilst sitting at home doing **** all but they would get more help in regards to money than some one who works , you honestly think that's fair?

I work because I was brought up to know you work to get what you want not expect it given, I'll also tell my son the same when old enough you need to work etc, why do some people assume when you have a kid work should be given up? I don't work full time the Mrs does, I have friends who don't work who are perfectly healthy kids are 3 and benefits they get is more than my wage, you think that is a fair benefit system? I think your deluded if you do

I'm not on about our broken benefits system, aside from the fact the cost of keeping these people quiet and fed is negligible in the overall welfare cost (pensions make up the vast majority remember) and once you offset that against the cost of social disorder if you gave them nothing, I would wager it's pretty cheap.

I was on about your statement that people who don't work shouldn't get any free childcare hours because they "dont deserve it" - whereas I'm pointing out it's for the childrens education and development, not for the benefit of the parent.

You might as well say people who dont work shouldn't be able to send their children to school for free either....

 

[Energize]

I do wonder what people would do if they were told that if they do not have children, then they must fund their retirement themselves, healthcare, everything.

They would be better off. Independent from the government rather than relying on a failing social security and NHS system created by an institution that takes your money by force and nannies you while claiming its for your own benefit. People would be best able to spend their own money to support their own individual needs, whether it be healthcare, childcare, retirement etc

 

[mid_gen]

They would be better off. Independent from the government rather than relying on a failing social security and NHS system created by an institution that takes your money by force and nannies you while claiming its for your own benefit. People would be best able to spend their own money to support their own individual needs, whether it be healthcare, childcare, retirement etc

You ever paid for your own healthcare?

 

[Energize]

You ever paid for your own healthcare?

Yup.

Not even through an insurance policy but straight out of my own pocket.

 

[mid_gen]

Yup.

Not even through an insurance policy but straight out of my own pocket.

You were arguing that we would be better off without the NHS.....and your supporting argument is that you had to pay for your own treatment while uninsured from your own pocket? Quite confused.

I've known a few people get seriously ill while uninsured and it usually results in saying goodbye to all their savings and half their parent's retirement funds....

The NHS is an absolute bargain for the consumer (you), you will not get better service for less money anywhere in the world.