Parents - changes coming to government childcare contributions

[Energize]

You were arguing that we would be better off without the NHS.....and your supporting argument is that you had to pay for your own treatment while uninsured from your own pocket? Quite confused.

No that's not my supporting argument, you asked me a direct question and I answered.

I've known a few people get seriously ill while uninsured and it usually results in saying goodbye to all their savings and half their parent's retirement funds....

The NHS is an absolute bargain for the consumer (you), you will not get better service for less money anywhere in the world.

Probably wouldn't have to wait as long for treatment anywhere else in the world either... Having the best value for money is not the best target to aim for, overall patient outcomes are more important.

Anyway you're creating a false dichotomy between the NHS and USA as so many people do.

 

[Participant]

It's not the collecting of extra tax that costs money

That's exactly what I said . 'there's no incremental cost to collecting primary school taxes'

the administration is in paying the tax back to people via various benefits. If we did not collect so much tax in the first place we would not need to pay it back.

The administration cost of tax rebates is outweighed by the avoidance costs of not collecting it in the first instance. You haven't a clue what you're talking about .

 

[Energize]

Can't offer a rebuttal so you resort to insults, fantastic. Trying to debate on ocuk is always a pleasure. (!)

 

[theone8181]

Ive registered for the 30 hours thing, i see what you mean it is quite convoluted. Still not sure how our nursery will implement it tho.

 

[Freakbro]

Ive registered for the 30 hours thing, i see what you mean it is quite convoluted. Still not sure how our nursery will implement it tho.

There's no standard model of delivery, it's down to each Nursery to see how they can fit it in to their current method of working.

Some will only offer a limited number of places at 30 hrs, some will restrict it to certain days, some might only offer the stretched version, some might be fully flexible.....it's actually more of an upheavel for the Nurseries to implement this than you would think on first thought, in a financial and logistical sense.

 

[Participant]

Can't offer a rebuttal so you resort to insults, fantastic. Trying to debate on ocuk is always a pleasure. (!)

How was my reply not a rebuttal? Not one you wanted to address perhaps, but a rebuttal all the same despite you ignoring it.

And I think you need to recalibrate your definition of an insult, or you must walk through life looking through tears.

 

[mid_gen]

Probably wouldn't have to wait as long for treatment anywhere else in the world either... Having the best value for money is not the best target to aim for, overall patient outcomes are more important.

They would be better off. Independent from the government rather than relying on a failing social security and NHS system created by an institution that takes your money by force and nannies you while claiming its for your own benefit. People would be best able to spend their own money to support their own individual needs, whether it be healthcare, childcare, retirement etc

I'm still really interested to know how you think you will be 'better off' without the NHS. FYI I pay nearly 700 EUR a month for the public health system here, on top of income tax rates broadly similar to the UK. The system is pretty good here, but it's no better than the NHS which costs nada extra over general taxation.

Anyway you're creating a false dichotomy between the NHS and USA as so many people do.

I never mentioned the USA.

The NHS is an amazing deal for patients, if you feel like you don't get value for money from it then you really need to experience what life is like where it doesn't exist.

 

[Energize]

How was my reply not a rebuttal? Not one you wanted to address perhaps, but a rebuttal all the same despite you ignoring it.

And I think you need to recalibrate your definition of an insult, or you must walk through life looking through tears.

Yeah not biting.

I'm still really interested to know how you think you will be 'better off' without the NHS. FYI I pay nearly 700 EUR a month for the public health system here, on top of income tax rates broadly similar to the UK. The system is pretty good here, but it's no better than the NHS which costs nada extra over general taxation.

I would have more choice in my treatment and far less waiting time, when I choose private treatment I can choose the best doctors in the country for my conditions and in the past I have been able to get appointments within a couple of days rather than the NHS 18 week target.

The NHS is an amazing deal for patients, if you feel like you don't get value for money from it then you really need to experience what life is like where it doesn't exist.

No I don't, I just need to look at the health outcome statistics.

And there is also more than just value for money that's important, it's the government control of healthcare that's bad, I want independence from the government, not forced dependence on it for my health matters!

 

[theone8181]

Yeah not biting.



I would have more choice in my treatment and far less waiting time, when I choose private treatment I can choose the best doctors in the country for my conditions and in the past I have been able to get appointments within a couple of days rather than the NHS 18 week target.



No I don't, I just need to look at the health outcome statistics.

And there is also more than just value for money that's important, it's the government control of healthcare that's bad, I want independence from the government, not forced dependence on it for my health matters!

Im trying to stay out of this argument, but think of it from the point of view of somebody on minimum wage. If there wasnt an nhs how would they afford treatment?

 

[Participant]

Anyway. I think Energize has had enough attention in this thread.

There seems to be a big trap here for people leaving childcare voucher schemes.

Imagine your childcare costs are currently high and you therefore leave your voucher scheme in favour of tax-free childcare. Then, a year later, your children are now at school but attend breakfast clubs, after school clubs, or any registered childminder arrangement that costs you money during their school career.

Suddenly, childcare vouchers make more sense, but you've left the scheme so the best you can get is 20%.

Am I missing something?

 

[Freakbro]

Anyway. I think Energize has had enough attention in this thread.

There seems to be a big trap here for people leaving childcare voucher schemes.

Imagine your childcare costs are currently high and you therefore leave your voucher scheme in favour of tax-free childcare. Then, a year later, your children are now at school but attend breakfast clubs, after school clubs, or any registered childminder arrangement that costs you money during their school career.

Suddenly, childcare vouchers make more sense, but you've left the scheme so the best you can get is 20%.

Am I missing something?

Only that childcare vouchers are only offered by a very low % of employers, less than 10% iirc, and aren't available to the self employed.

So you are right in the fact that if you are currently on the voucher scheme, a lot of people, not all, will be worse off under the new scheme, but it's quite complicated to work out....especially if you are a higher tax payer.

But it's better than the nothing that the rest of the parents currently have.

Another point to take into account is I believe vouchers can be used for children up to 15, TFC will be up to 12.

You can't get TFC and Child tax credits, so it's no good for low earners, but since TFC is up to £2k per child, rather than vouchers being a set amount per month, it's good for families with multiple children.

With TFC both parents need to work, with vouchers they're eligible for 1 parent working families.

 

[Participant]

Right, well I've signed up for the 30 hours for my youngest and ticked the radio button that said 'I want to keep using childcare vouchers but claim the 30 free hours'. Our nursery was listed under the scheme members too! Hooray!

Since he does approx 24 hours per week, we should be approx. £650 per month better off from September... .

 

[Freakbro]

Right, well I've signed up for the 30 hours for my youngest and ticked the radio button that said 'I want to keep using childcare vouchers but claim the 30 free hours'. Our nursery was listed under the scheme members too! Hooray!

Since he does approx 24 hours per week, we should be approx. £650 per month better off from September... .

Do they do the stretched offer or are they only open during term time?

Since your boy is only doing ~24 hrs / week you would be better to take a stretched offer of say 24 hrs / week for 47.5 weeks, rather than the standard offer of 30 hrs / week for 38 weeks and not get your full entitlement

 

[Participant]

Do they do the stretched offer or are they only open during term time?

Since your boy is only doing ~24 hrs / week you would be better to take a stretched offer of say 24 hrs / week for 47.5 weeks, rather than the standard offer of 30 hrs / week for 38 weeks and not get your full entitlement

They're open all year round so I presume I can get the former.

 

[Energize]

Im trying to stay out of this argument, but think of it from the point of view of somebody on minimum wage. If there wasnt an nhs how would they afford treatment?

I'm not against having a benefits system where people who can't afford healthcare get it paid for by the government. What I am against is the government providing the actual service, same applies to schools as well.

Look to Japan's universal healthcare system, all private healthcare, having insurance is mandatory, people can choose who to go to for medical treatment, part of the insurance policy is paid directly and part through taxation. It's a much better model than the NHS, and because people have to pay for healthcare it encourages personal responsibility and reduces the impact of peoples hazardous lifestyle choices to all the other taxpayers, eg obesity, drunk idiots, smokers, sports injuries etc.

 

[theone8181]

I just had an email thru about tax free childcare and the 30 free hours. Anyone else had this, it sounds like the extra free hours means you get emailed a code to give to your nursery but not sure if theyve started sending them out yet.

 

[Freakbro]

Probably not, as it only starts in Sept

You must remember to renew your details every 3 months and get a new code for the start of each term

If you are late doing the renewal you will lose that terms extra 15 hrs

 

[Nelson Santos]

We were automatically put on 15 free hours by our current nursery and when September hits we have been told we will automatically receive the 30 free hours. Our fees have gone from £170 a week to £120 and will drop to £70 in September.

 

[Participant]

I just had an email thru about tax free childcare and the 30 free hours. Anyone else had this, it sounds like the extra free hours means you get emailed a code to give to your nursery but not sure if theyve started sending them out yet.

I got a code when I applied for the childcare account on the government website. We've given the code to our nursery, but the application said you need to reconfirm every three months, which is mid August for us.

So they have started giving them out, but I'm not sure how much use they at this stage if they're not eligible until September and we need another code before then!

 

[theone8181]

I got a code when I applied for the childcare account on the government website. We've given the code to our nursery, but the application said you need to reconfirm every three months, which is mid August for us.

So they have started giving them out, but I'm not sure how much use they at this stage if they're not eligible until September and we need another code before then!

That seems a bit stupid.