Soldato
SiriusB said:
Your forgot the [RANT][/RANT] at the start and end of your post sb
Please Rejoin SETI@Home
- Thread starter Whitestar
- Start date
Your forgot the [RANT][/RANT] at the start and end of your post sb
Soldato
shadowscotland said:Your forgot the [RANT][/RANT] at the start and end of your post sb
Stealth rant
SiriusB
br83taylor said:
It was really unstable for one, (And before you say it, no it wasn't my system that was unstable) because it was unstable on every machine I had it running on.
Two, I had to manually force it to send and get new work every morning. Not really a problem you say. Well try having to do that on 20 machines every morning, then its a problem.
I didn't have any problem with the credit system or BOINC. I had a problem with the seti client, I was fed up with all the server downtime and the attitude of the staff at b0rkeley towards the users that make their project happen is downright disgusting.
br83taylor said:
60Mb. Looks like they have reworked their work units to use less memory because I remember it using at least 80Mb for each client running.
And no, Im not one of these people who will jump ship at the first sign of trouble. After the shoddy release of SETI Enhanced I stuck it out for ages in the hope that things would get better, but they didn't so I made the choice of switching to a project that has already produced far more results than S@H probably ever will
Thats weird. I have never had any instability problems with the enhanced client, running on 4 PCs. Having a look now, each WU takes up 61,528 and 61,532 (for the second one), not very large whatsoever.
Yes the downtime every so often is an issue but since about 2 months ago there has been no downtime whatsoever. Having to manually update every morning is a little wierd too.
Yes the downtime every so often is an issue but since about 2 months ago there has been no downtime whatsoever. Having to manually update every morning is a little wierd too.
Associate
Whitestar dont you dare go back to the darkside, just got used to you storming away from me.
It would just be back to the cat & mouse scenario when the school holls hit your production.
It was nice to visit Cell 3 for a day though (hadnt changed that much thought you were going to re-decorate).
Tom
It would just be back to the cat & mouse scenario when the school holls hit your production.
It was nice to visit Cell 3 for a day though (hadnt changed that much thought you were going to re-decorate).
Tom
Don't worry sculptor. There's no way i'm going back to s@h now.
Amp. Other than a borg somewhere that must still be going, i've not done any work for seti in a over a year now, so I don't know what the situation with it is like. Obviously they made some improvements to the client and the fact that they haven't had downtime in two months is frankly astonishing.
The fact that I had to manually update every morning seemed to be a problem that only a few people had. I had posted about it on the seti forum and after weeks of strugling to get a half decent reply from the guys at borkeley I gave up.
Amp. Other than a borg somewhere that must still be going, i've not done any work for seti in a over a year now, so I don't know what the situation with it is like. Obviously they made some improvements to the client and the fact that they haven't had downtime in two months is frankly astonishing.
The fact that I had to manually update every morning seemed to be a problem that only a few people had. I had posted about it on the seti forum and after weeks of strugling to get a half decent reply from the guys at borkeley I gave up.
Soldato
Has anyone Folding tried Rosetta at all?
They're doing protein docking work as well as full atom relaxation and the new feedback system they've implemented will tell you where your completed models fall in the grand scheme of all the work crunched on that molecule so far.
Like this.
It's fast becoming my preferred BOINC project. Seti now gets just 10% time allocated to it on my machine.
BOINC > Seti
They're doing protein docking work as well as full atom relaxation and the new feedback system they've implemented will tell you where your completed models fall in the grand scheme of all the work crunched on that molecule so far.
Like this.
It's fast becoming my preferred BOINC project. Seti now gets just 10% time allocated to it on my machine.
BOINC > Seti
I quoted this because I think it more or less sums up how most DC crunchers seem to feel about SETI.mikeymike said:
As always researching cures for diseases and dealing with the climate, etc should go on, but I don't think any of those pursuits exclude any others. And there will always be a whole array of challenges facing human kind.
As for the part of the above quote "if we somehow manage not to destroy the earth ourselves before then"... I think that finding proof of an intelligent civilization else where would majorly contribute to preventing us from destroying our world.
I think that generally the age old reason for having conflict in the world and not appreciating the fragility of our earth is that humans generally tend to take themselves (and their country, etc) WAY TOO seriously.
Proof of life else where would be proof that we are not the center of the universe. We know through science that we are not the center of the universe, yet people/cultures around the world still often act as if we are the center of the universe.
To have PROOF that we are indeed not the only ones in town, would result in a major paradigm shift amongst human kind. The overall maturity level of human society would make a quantum leap. Greater understanding and cooperation would gradually follow and we'd never go back to how we used to see ourselves and the world.
But the main point is we take ourselves way too seriously... we would not if we were humbled by proof that there is a whole "other earth" out there somewhere.
I have not crunched anything for quite a while due to some circumstances that sort of took over (same reason why I abandoned my website), but as soon as I have the time I'll get my crunchers going again (not the website though). I think that SETI is very worth while even if nothing is found in my life time. In the mean time the effort to find a result has to be kept going.
[/two cents]
Soldato
The main problem with SETI is that its such a shot in the dark. It could run for the next 50 years and not find something!
With other DC projects, such as Folding, progress is always being made. We are learning more every day and basically getting results.
If all the DC projects in the world stopped tomorrow morning and had to show what they had achieved, SETI would be at the bottom of the list looking very sheepish.
SiriusB
With other DC projects, such as Folding, progress is always being made. We are learning more every day and basically getting results.
If all the DC projects in the world stopped tomorrow morning and had to show what they had achieved, SETI would be at the bottom of the list looking very sheepish.
SiriusB
Soldato
SiriusB said:
This ignores the fact that were it not for SETI most other DC projects would not exist.
The glamourous science behind SETI is the major reason for the massive media exposure and widespread uptake of the BOINC client and previously SETI classic. Ever seen Leiden Classical in the news?
Early CPDN had a non-boinc client but the uptake was extremely small compared to that for the BOINC client. I'd wager that most people found their way to CPDN Boinc from being SETI boinc users. I know I did.
I agree that the science of SETI is less essential than some other projects but that doesn't change the fact that they blazed the trail which other projects follow.
Well I think it's only a "shot in the dark" in terms of the time frame of our life spans. It could take a hundred years or more to find the right signal, but it's gotta be there.
And of course SETI would have nothing to show for, because there are no incremental results. I don't think that the SETI team would feel ambarrased or whatever about the lack of results so far.
I do think though that they need to do something radical to prevent so much downtime, etc... it's not helping the project at all.... other than that, they can feel proud of the continuing effort.
But all the DC projects are great and worth while. I'm just saying that SETI is also despite the lack of results so far.
SETI in particular though is something that needs to be done by the people.
Proof of another civilization is something that would have a universal appeal. It would transcend cultures, politics and belief systems.
And of course SETI would have nothing to show for, because there are no incremental results. I don't think that the SETI team would feel ambarrased or whatever about the lack of results so far.
I do think though that they need to do something radical to prevent so much downtime, etc... it's not helping the project at all.... other than that, they can feel proud of the continuing effort.
But all the DC projects are great and worth while. I'm just saying that SETI is also despite the lack of results so far.
SETI in particular though is something that needs to be done by the people.
Proof of another civilization is something that would have a universal appeal. It would transcend cultures, politics and belief systems.
Pumpkinstew said:
I was going to say pretty much the same thing.
I consider Folding to be more worthwhile than SETI but it was SETI which got me interested in DC projects in the first place. How many of us on the Folding team actually started by running SETI@Home? - I'd wager most of us did.
SETI may not have produced much in the way of results as far as it's primary objective is concerned but it showed the way as far as DC projects go and I, for one, believe this to be a valuable contribution.
Stan
Soldato
I am happy to admit that I started out with SETI@Home, as far as I can remember it was the first DC project ever. This may not be the case but at the time nothing else had so much prominence.
However, as more DC projects came along SETI became less deserving, i felt, of my CPU down time. I would rather help medicine with my CPU cycles.
I don't like the argument that finding an alien race elsewhere will bring humanity together yadda yadda yadda because I really suspect it wont. I think the only way aliens can bring humanity together is if they land on earth and say hello personally. With current theories and whatnot, any alien race is likely to be hundreds, if not thousands, of lightyears away and such journeys even at the speed of light [which is impossible] would take hundreds/thousands of years.
So in short, dont count on aliens sorting our problems.
SiriusB
However, as more DC projects came along SETI became less deserving, i felt, of my CPU down time. I would rather help medicine with my CPU cycles.
I don't like the argument that finding an alien race elsewhere will bring humanity together yadda yadda yadda because I really suspect it wont. I think the only way aliens can bring humanity together is if they land on earth and say hello personally. With current theories and whatnot, any alien race is likely to be hundreds, if not thousands, of lightyears away and such journeys even at the speed of light [which is impossible] would take hundreds/thousands of years.
So in short, dont count on aliens sorting our problems.
SiriusB
Well just try to think of it this way... no discovery of quite that magnitude has ever been made... proof of a whole other civilization. Human belief systems are to a great degree based on the premise that "we're it". I think it would be a helpful change if that were toned down.SiriusB said:
I think that would be the worst outcome, because then "where they landed", "who they agree with more" would all get VERY politicised.SiriusB said:
In all likelyhood a signal (apart from having the signs of being intelligently organized), would be mostly nonsensical to us and that would be a good thing... nothing to politicise yada yada.
Anyway, we're talking real long term here... I'm sure something along the way will re-engage interest in SETI again... like for example, a manned trip to mars might produce some fossil evidence of life...
Associate
See below!
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Associate
Pumpkinstew said:
Hear hear!
before BOINC seti had a team feeling, like folding does now but to a higher extent, you could have races etc, it was more like a game than a project. after boink it just became somthing that ran in the background, it didn't have any real fun parts.
VeNT said:
And yet its closer to how the other DC projects run in terms of not being able to cache as much as you could in the old days. So in terms of competition its not that the system is at fault rather that people became disilusioned with the system for other reasons.
I'm a long time seti cruncher, anyone will attest to that
I was particularly active in all the competitions we ran, I ran huge farms, life has changed for me, the drive for WUage has lessened however I still feel that there isn't any inherant reason in the boinc system why competitions and fun could not be had, its just something that someone has to drum up the enthusiasm for. Even those among you who fold, I can't see the same level of intensity and enthusiasm and drive for drag-races and team competition and such that we used to have in this forum when we were all crunching Seti@classic.
I'm not saying that Folding doesn't lend itself to that spirit, I think that both Folding and Boinc are very similar in the way they *can* be used in that way. I guess I am saying I think that neither are the better than the other from a competition point of view its just down to the individual people to create that "feeling" not the project that you crunch/technology that you use.
*Peace*
I've no problem admitting that it was S@H that got me into DC, but the S@H that got me into DC is a lot different than S@H now. There have been a lot of changes, some good, some bad. S@H did blaze the way for other DC projects, but I think is also what has caused one of the bad changes at S@H.
[RANT]
Ever since they moved over to BOINC and people and the media took more notice, they seem to have this 'holier than thou' attitude towards other DC projects.
Its like they are sitting there saying 'We are the best project, so were gonna carry on doing what we like and not give a monkies about the users that got us here.' Thats the sort of impression I get from S@H now.
As far as the science helping us goes.
Even if we recieve a signal tomorrow, who is to say that its going to be a message from an advanced civilization. It could just be radio transmission floating through space like the ones from us that we've been sending since the invention of radio.
But, lets assume that it is from an advanced civilizationand that know about us and have sent us a message and for arguments sake lets assume that it came from the closest known planet outside our solar system (which is 10.5 light years away).
Once we have the signal we'll probably find that its just something like prime numbers or something simple that when they get a message nack they know we are advanced enough to understand it.
So, we understood the first message and are sending our own back. Thats 10.5 years for our message to get to them. Then its another 10.5 years for a return message to get to us. But this will be more complicated, so it will take god knows how long do decrypt it. But lets say a year.
So, we send another message back saying 'Hi, This is Earth. We are humans. Oh by the way our climate is broken how can we fix it?' 10.5 years later, They read it.
10.5 years later we get a reply.
So thats 43 years for them to tell us how to fix our climate.
Wait wasn't there a report not long ago that said our climate would be royaly fubar within the next 12 years unless some drastic measures were taken.
So unless advanced aliens are on their way here and get here within the next 12 years and happen to know how to fix our climate and happen to have the tech needed with them to do it, a project dedicated to listening for aliens is going to get us anywhere. Wereas projects dedicated to solving the problem for ourselves, is much more improtant.
[/RANT]
[RANT]
Ever since they moved over to BOINC and people and the media took more notice, they seem to have this 'holier than thou' attitude towards other DC projects.
Its like they are sitting there saying 'We are the best project, so were gonna carry on doing what we like and not give a monkies about the users that got us here.' Thats the sort of impression I get from S@H now.
As far as the science helping us goes.
Even if we recieve a signal tomorrow, who is to say that its going to be a message from an advanced civilization. It could just be radio transmission floating through space like the ones from us that we've been sending since the invention of radio.
But, lets assume that it is from an advanced civilizationand that know about us and have sent us a message and for arguments sake lets assume that it came from the closest known planet outside our solar system (which is 10.5 light years away).
Once we have the signal we'll probably find that its just something like prime numbers or something simple that when they get a message nack they know we are advanced enough to understand it.
So, we understood the first message and are sending our own back. Thats 10.5 years for our message to get to them. Then its another 10.5 years for a return message to get to us. But this will be more complicated, so it will take god knows how long do decrypt it. But lets say a year.
So, we send another message back saying 'Hi, This is Earth. We are humans. Oh by the way our climate is broken how can we fix it?' 10.5 years later, They read it.
10.5 years later we get a reply.
So thats 43 years for them to tell us how to fix our climate.
Wait wasn't there a report not long ago that said our climate would be royaly fubar within the next 12 years unless some drastic measures were taken.
So unless advanced aliens are on their way here and get here within the next 12 years and happen to know how to fix our climate and happen to have the tech needed with them to do it, a project dedicated to listening for aliens is going to get us anywhere. Wereas projects dedicated to solving the problem for ourselves, is much more improtant.
[/RANT]
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Soldato
I'm with Whitestar on this!
Aliens aint gonna solve our problems.
Also, there is plenty of competition in folding! While I have been folding for Team 10 there have been a couple of races and that's just in our team. I am sure stuff like this happens all over the place!
Also, there is a constant battle ground of stomps and anti-stomp maneouvers! Freefaller thought he was safe from me, but i'll have him stomped by Christmas. deej thought he was gonna stomp me, not looking likely at the moment
I parped oceaness several months ago, I shall be making good on tha parp later today
So, plenty of competition and that's just from my perspective!
SiriusB
Aliens aint gonna solve our problems.
Also, there is plenty of competition in folding! While I have been folding for Team 10 there have been a couple of races and that's just in our team. I am sure stuff like this happens all over the place!
Also, there is a constant battle ground of stomps and anti-stomp maneouvers! Freefaller thought he was safe from me, but i'll have him stomped by Christmas. deej thought he was gonna stomp me, not looking likely at the moment
I parped oceaness several months ago, I shall be making good on tha parp later today
So, plenty of competition and that's just from my perspective!
SiriusB