reheating food help !

[ElRazur]

poor guy should just learn to admit hes wrong / his namby pamby uni course may not be the best way to dismiss the combined knowledge of many of the top scientists in the field :/ ps doesnt bacillus cereus only account for like <5% of all cases, thought the big ones were like salmonella, ecoli etc

i also love the way hes now using "jibed" etc after my post saying something was a jibe.. your usage ElRazur is not correct

tbh if rice is such a big deal, chuck it out - its not that expensive / hard to make some more

I guess you might wanna trademark/copy right the word jibe then. Seriously i can be bothered....Say something meaniful and i will get back to you.

 

[ElRazur]

ElRazur your attitude and tone in this thread astounds me. What makes it more amusing is that you are so very wrong.

Haa, i hear that all the time and it is something i can deal with in here. Perhaps you should state where you think Im SO VERY WRONG then i will be more than happy to debate with you.

I dont expect you or anyone in here to like my tone or my style. I dont do kiss arse and do tagteam like most do in here, i say it as i see it and if i dont know i dont say nothing.If you have a problem with it ..... too bad man, your loss.

 

[Cybermyk]

So.. how do you actually build up immunity to this sort of food poisoning?

 

[ElRazur]

So.. how do you actually build up immunity to this sort of food poisoning?

You might wanna look up on Immunity. If is kinda complex but i will try to break some of it down.

You cant exactly build immunity to food poisoning, if you consume a large dose of say E.coli but your body have various defences to try and deal with it e.g Part of digestion in the mouth during chewing helps to weaken the protective coat, the acid in your belly can melt the rest and if it still manage to breach those then you have things like complement activation and other pathway come into effect.
The reason i say you dont have total immunity is because even if you body cell attacks and breaks it down, the LPS release contains toxins and your body reacts to this via secretion of excess fluid so as to flush it out- this still gives you a sick feeling and raised body temperature (works to your body defence system advantage) and you pass out more faeces....
Most of this things happen all the time but we just dont notice them, we only do we we consume large amount of microbe (that dosent mean small amount is not harmful either) and the effect it gives later
Look it up, im not sure i can explain it all.

 

[alexakasloth]

There is one thing you are clearly missing. Does rice which has been re-heated like that actually taste nice?

 

[Dreadi]

does rice actually taste of anything anyway?

 

[ElRazur]

does rice actually taste of anything anyway?

What do you mean?...It taste like rice and whatever sause it is cooked or served with...

 

[Dreadi]

yeah but the taste is pretty much nothing if cooked on its own

 

[ElRazur]

yeah but the taste is pretty much nothing if cooked on its own

Really, trust me not when you come from Nigeria like me and you have to make something out of nothing sometimes. Plain rice taste delicious if you are that hungry..iirc it has a unique taste, it feels like sugar due to the carbohydrate in it after a while.

 

[fini]

ElRazur - you going to reply to my post?

fini

 

[VeNT]

lol
anyway, I was always told never to reheat rice as its bad mmm'k?

 

[Morat]

Heat resistant


I never argued about frying or any of those things you are trying to imply. Can we base the debate on what it is from the begining and leave irrelevant things out of it. (can the spores be killed via cooking)

The main point was that this bacterium can survive the temperatures of boiling for 10 minutes and cooking.

Whilst the majority will indeed be destroyed by this, some will survive.

Therefore if the food is left to cool at room temperature, the ones that have survived will breed and release toxins.

For me, medical specialists stating that this is an extremely difficult bacteria to remoe from medical instruments and food due to there invariably being some that survive whatever temperatures they are exposed to, is more valid that you following blindly that as the bacteria can be killed by heat, they all must be.
Even though the evidence states that not all will be killed by heat.

Therefore cooking, whilst killing 99% of them, will still allow enough to survive to cause poisoning, as some will always survive the heat.

 

[ElRazur]

PHYSICAL INACTIVATION: Spores destroyed by heating at 100°C for 10 min;

Are you saying, this is wrong then?

My arguement all along is that it can be destroyed via cooking and microwaving (pipiing hot).
If you have the time, stick a thermometer in a pot while cooking rice and see what temperature it will read.
Orignally i stated that i dont believe any microbe (cereus) will survive that extreme of temp if cooked for 20 min, only for your link to even point at 10min - that's lower than what i said all along hence making my point more valid. I also argued that a baby bottle sterilizer will make the bottle sterillized in a 10mins steam cycle - that's enough to render any heat resistant coating useless but no one took notice of this.

I never argued that if left at room temp it wont multiply, off course everyone knows that.

You mentioed that medical specialist says it is difficult to get rid of from medical instrument right? Can you show me the link please, i think you are mistaking a DIFFERENT STRAIN with Bacillus cereus. Different strains have different characteristics and attributes.
I never argued blindly, it is down to the fact im so infamous in here that whatever i say is deemed rubbish and im labelled arrogant Perhaps people should see where my point of arguement is all along - the spore can be destroyed via cooking and microwaving hence making it safe for consumption

 

[ElRazur]

ElRazur - you going to reply to my post?

fini

I see your game play and plan, seriously it is weak. Why dont you quit going around the bush and say/call me whatever you wanna, it is easier that way. I ignored you all along because the message is quite clear in your post.
Peace.

 

[squiffy]

The main point was that this bacterium can survive the temperatures of boiling for 10 minutes and cooking.

Whilst the majority will indeed be destroyed by this, some will survive.

Therefore if the food is left to cool at room temperature, the ones that have survived will breed and release toxins.

For me, medical specialists stating that this is an extremely difficult bacteria to remoe from medical instruments and food due to there invariably being some that survive whatever temperatures they are exposed to, is more valid that you following blindly that as the bacteria can be killed by heat, they all must be.
Even though the evidence states that not all will be killed by heat.

Therefore cooking, whilst killing 99% of them, will still allow enough to survive to cause poisoning, as some will always survive the heat.

Don't you think these experts are being over cautious? It protects them from lawsuits. Leaving rice overnight and reheating is fine, probably 0.001% getting ill. For example if I've eaten reheaten rice every day for 30 years and never got food poisioning, I find it unlikely someone else will get it 10% of the time for exactly the same amount of time left out/in the fridge. I've eaten bread with little spots of mould, no problem.

 

[ElRazur]

I've eaten bread with little spots of mould, no problem.

Thats more nutrition i think

Moulds are microscopic plants. They are not like green plants, which make their own food from light. Moulds actually eat other things. You have probably seen mould many times. It grows on cheese, oranges bread, and other items that can be found in your home.

http://publish.uwo.ca/~cagis/experiments/mold.htm

And might even help you

Moulds are among the most widespread living organisms, with many different varieties. The common bread mould is a well-known example. Some moulds produce penicillin or other antibiotics, or are necessary for agriculture and food production; others produce potent toxins or are a major source for plant disease.

 

[Morat]

You mentioed that medical specialist says it is difficult to get rid of from medical instrument right? Can you show me the link please, i think you are mistaking a DIFFERENT STRAIN with Bacillus cereus. Different strains have different characteristics and attributes.
I never argued blindly, it is down to the fact im so infamous in here that whatever i say is deemed rubbish and im labelled arrogant Perhaps people should see where my point of arguement is all along - the spore can be destroyed via cooking and microwaving hence making it safe for consumption

If you didn't actually read the articles, I do not really believe that posting the same ones that state that will be of any benefit.

The point is that the bacteria will be destroyed by these temperatures.

However; as some of them will not be destroyed due to extreme heat resistance.

Therefore there can be a problem.

The issue you seem to have difficulty grasping is that not all bacteria of this strain will be destroyed by these temperatures.

Whilst is is known that certain temperatures will kill bacteria, it is needless to clarify every single article printed with "of course, some more resistant ones will survive", as this is a given fact.

Once you can ackowledge this, you will be in a position where you can perhaps see that surviving bacteria - and these bacteria can indeed sometimes not die at temperatures that will usually kill them - can be a problem.

You need to bear in mind that even a single bacterium that survived out of millions, over 12 hours at room temperature, can have bred millions again.
And there you have the toxin buildup.

It is quite frighteningly simple to grasp, and for someone professing to have some degree of intelligence, it frightens me a little that you are unprepared to accept anything which contradicts your somewhat limited understanding of biology, bacteria, strains, and resistance.

If indeed you are studying biology you should be aware of this.
Admittedly I am a little rusty as it has been a decade for me, but I still maintain my faculties.





From a scientific viewpoint you must look at all data objectively, work through the available information, then from all available data follow it to itss logical conclusion.

In this case it is as follows.

This bacteriums will be destroyed by temperatures of 100 degrees.

There is a high probability that some will survive this due to adaptation in regards to heat resistance.

Bacteria can breed really fast at room temperature.

This bacterium can leave toxins that are not destroyed by re-heating, no matter what the temperature.

Ergo we can decide that there is a possibility of food poisoning from re-heating food that has been left to cool at room temperature.

 

[kibblerok]

Haa, i hear that all the time and it is something i can deal with in here. Perhaps you should state where you think Im SO VERY WRONG then i will be more than happy to debate with you.

The evidence is all in this thread, have a re-read, i dont need to go posting it again.

The fact is bacillus cereus forms spores and in the right conditions produces a toxin. In reheating a fair amount of the bacteria will be killed however the toxin that causes the ilness will remain.

 

[VeNT]

the only way to be sure of 100% germ removal
is to nuke it from orbit.

 

[ElRazur]

.

Why do you insist on moving the goal post and why is you refuse to see the facts i am presenting to you and the flaws in your own arguement?

Bacillus cereus spore can be destroyed by heat over 75d - FACT see the link you provided.
Cooking for 20mins will acheive temp close to 150d+ which is more than enough to destroy any heat-resistant capabilities of the cereus spores - FACT (also bear in mind i said 20mins originally)

If the link your posted suggest a destruction of cereus spore at 75d for 10mins and i suggested 20mins in a 150d+ temp then surely i have a valid point.

We gonna keep going round and round in circles, but then let me say this - it is unbelieveable how your arguement started from having an "Overwhelming evidence" to suggest otherwise, to your last post sounding more than pathetic really.
Tell me something, how would the heat resistant coating survive a 150d+ temp for 20mins? The forces that hold the protein together start to break apart - denaturing happens. Let me put this in perspective for you, the human temp need to be roughly constant at 36 (iirc) and thing above this by three or four degree will lead into shock, enzymes breaking down and abnormal body functions and ultimately death. Now imagine if the body temp was rased to say a 100d or so? Are you telling me the subject will survive? ........I rest my case.
You seem to spend more time arguing about cereus proliferation at room temp, which i never dispute all along than actually debating destruction of spores at extreme of temp...
You seem to pick on my intelligence and jumping on the band wagon, perhaps you should pause for a sec and ask yourself why you keep debating with me if you think im stoooooooopid?
The bone of contention from my point of view is this - Bacillus spores can be destroyed via cooking period.(As you can achieve easily surpass the recommended "KILLING TEMP")

And just for the record i studied Biomedocal sciences.