Road Cycling

Soldato
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Where it gives the score you just click/tap on that...
Ahhhh good shout. I'm sure I'd seen that other places rather than going in that way but quite stumped now as it's been a while since I saw it. Was sure I saw it more frequently than I do these days lol.

Looks like I'm mostly at 480-510, then the occasional up around 550-580, generally I don't go as high as you're seeing without a monster single ride in there (a few weeks during furlough trying to find my climbing legs I got near 1000! :o).

My 'easy' weeks are 300-350. Looks like I get to 200 with my commuting alone...

It's strictly training stress balance - I use GC so that follows the Coggan naming conventions, but they're all measuring the same metric, that is, how much TSS above or below your CTL you are. If you're hovering at 0 that means your effort for the day matched your chronic training load so you should feel ok.
If you go massively over your CTL then you'll likely over reach and not really build from that. It's easy to build an artificially high CTL by doing huge rides once per week, but you'll not have the same type of physical adaptations as you would by riding in a structured manner 5 days a week, say. When I first joined a club I spent 2 years feeling totally destroyed every monday from the sunday club ride. It was only once I started adding in some Z2 work that I could cope with it.
You'd be amazed how fit you can get riding an hour a day at the top of Z2 power. It's just bordering on the uncomfortable/boring, but doable if you're motivated. A lot of people put loads of sprint efforts into their training for the sunday cafe run, madness! Doing the hour at Z2 gets you to a CTL of around 65 - If you want more you've got to either double up on training sessions, add a long weekend ride in, do some Z3 etc.
Good call about TSS. I have to admit I 'aim' some rides at that, particularly if I've had an 'easier' week for various reasons, yet feel good and that I need to hammer something to make it up for the week. The WTRL TTT's on Zwift coming in at 100 TSS for me, that's always a figure I've aimed at for 1.5 hours of 'other' riding/racing.

I think what you're describing is something we discussed in one of the training threads 6 months or more ago, might even have been the Indoor Training thread. Lots of Z1/2 then the occasional short session in Z5. Probably similar to what we get to on our own, but takes the two sides of it to extremes - you get more active recovery, massive base fitness, with a similar strain. But takes a large amount of structure/concentration to get the best benefits. I know I couldn't do it with the ways I generally ride (& commute).

All fitted and updated, battery is at 50% out the box annoyingly but looking forward to some Z2 rides now I can pace it.
Sweet. Grab a pack of CR2032's as there's nothing more annoying than scratching around looking for one or only having a couple spares, then having to go to the shop/petrol station to find some and paying silly money. Think the last ones I got where ~10 of them from Amazon, Panasonic branded for £5-6.

I'm sure Jonny would be fine hitting 310W quite easily looking at the rides he does!
Yup, probably start with it set at a fairly conservative 270W, then work from there up - very quick with something like racing on Zwift - it'll keep track of it for you every time you get an increase, with doing specific FTP tests and changing it manually...
 
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Associate
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Looks like I'm mostly at 480-510, then the occasional up around 550-580, generally I don't go as high as you're seeing without a monster single ride in there (a few weeks during furlough trying to find my climbing legs I got near 1000! :o).

My 'easy' weeks are 300-350. Looks like I get to 200 with my commuting alone...

Good call about TSS. I have to admit I 'aim' some rides at that, particularly if I've had an 'easier' week for various reasons, yet feel good and that I need to hammer something to make it up for the week. The WTRL TTT's on Zwift coming in at 100 TSS for me, that's always a figure I've aimed at for 1.5 hours of 'other' riding/racing.

I think what you're describing is something we discussed in one of the training threads 6 months or more ago, might even have been the Indoor Training thread. Lots of Z1/2 then the occasional short session in Z5. Probably similar to what we get to on our own, but takes the two sides of it to extremes - you get more recovery, massive base fitness, with a similar strain. But takes a large amount of structure/concentration to get the best benefits. I know I couldn't do it with the ways I generally ride (& commute).

There's many ways to build base, but no matter how it's achieved, the height of that fitness peak is directly proportional to a wide foundation.
I've had a couple of weeks at 1000TSS but its too much for mortals; the recovery required is epic I found.

100TSS for the WTRL is about right for a full gas, properly paced effort. At least thats what I found before our team folded spectacularly!
 
Soldato
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Give 235W a go for an hour and see how you get on. Keep a check on the HR.:)

Is this for Z2? I'm chunky so numbers seem high, I remember doing a 303w ride for an hour previously.

Sweet. Grab a pack of CR2032's as there's nothing more annoying than scratching around looking for one or only having a couple spares, then having to go to the shop/petrol station to find some and paying silly money. Think the last ones I got where ~10 of them from Amazon, Panasonic branded for £5-6.

Yup, probably start with it set at a fairly conservative 270W, then work from there up - very quick with something like racing on Zwift - it'll keep track of it for you every time you get an increase, with doing specific FTP tests and changing it manually...

Cheers, good shout with the batteries. Will keep some in the car too.

I'll set it back lower as the ramp test seems to give a higher artificial reading for an ftp. Ftp is a lot of ***** in some ways when you have to go way above it then way below it on most of my hard rides.
 
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Is this for Z2? I'm chunky so numbers seem high, I remember doing a 303w ride for an hour previously.

If you're at 300W for an hour then top of Z2 for you is 227W. I'd over-egged it slightly based on a previous post. Doing that for an hour will net you 60 odd TSS, which for winter is a very good number to get your CTL to imo.
 
Soldato
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Cheers, good shout with the batteries. Will keep some in the car too.

I'll set it back lower as the ramp test seems to give a higher artificial reading for an ftp. Ftp is a lot of ***** in some ways when you have to go way above it then way below it on most of my hard rides.
Batteries I generally carry one in my saddlebag in the little card/plastic blister thing. They're cheap enough it's 'meh' if it goes missing, but also small and handy enough to carry. My HRM takes them too but with only needing to change every 8-10 months I don't think I've changed one at the roadside. My 4iiii is generally quite 'good' at complaining about 'Power Low' on my head unit for days. Think even last time it was for a couple of weeks of commuting before it eventually died. Tend to notice a few dropouts before then too, so quite easy to spot and do at my leisure. So unsure I've changed that at the roadside either - even though I'm carrying a spare! My Powertap C1 on the other hand... No warning, just a dropout or two and then within a few hours utterly dead, so I would change that at the roadside...

FTP is 'simple' really. It's nothing more than a measure of 20 mins effort for most. Pretty pointless for racing and Zwift racing, a little better when doing solo long intervals/TT's though.

Most of my recently TTT Zwift FTP improvements have been from rides/courses which suit me and my style of riding - deep in threshold, then over and back into SS, active recovering briefly, back into threshold (or barely out) and go again. I'm quite adapted to that from the efforts I generally do outside which are nearly always <5 minute climbs well over FTP. Although in the TTT's generally being one of the 'lower' W/KG guys, I'm always chasing the stronger/lighter guys, more than just towing turns - but chasing/closing gaps for others too. I've got a big engine from doing it, so although I'm one of the 'weaker' I'll usually be one of the finishers, whereas some of the 'stronger' guys are just burned out long before... I have started pushing myself back into longer efforts - aiming some rides/races over the hour marker, while still increasing the power on the shorter TTT's. If I can balance that I should see some good improvements once back into club riding. At the moment (and the very few club social rides I've done the last few months) anything over the 2/3 hour marker really strain me.
 
Soldato
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It's a handy measure of progress (or lack of!) too.
But it isn't a label of how good a rider you are. My 20 min power is not too bad, but I will get my assed kicked on any hill climbs, despite having a relatively good w/kg too (for 20 mins).

And there are riders who are really punchy, but just can't cope on a chain gang that needs an hour or so consistent high effort.
 
Soldato
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If you're at 300W for an hour then top of Z2 for you is 227W. I'd over-egged it slightly based on a previous post. Doing that for an hour will net you 60 odd TSS, which for winter is a very good number to get your CTL to imo.

Not necessarily. Depends on so many factors and could only be determined by proper testing with blood taken to confirm your lactate thresholds.
 
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Not necessarily. Depends on so many factors and could only be determined by proper testing with blood taken to confirm your lactate thresholds.
Ok sure, I should've qualified my post by saying top of Z2, based on Coggan power zones; which were derived from LT tests.

@Jonny ///M - go get your blood tested in a lab!

I've been tempted to pay for a test privately to see where my numbers are at, but I think you'd need constant testing to get a feel for the numbers?
 
Soldato
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Tried to to do a comparison with the Tacx hooked up to Zwift and my 4iiii via my Garmin but it looks like the Garmin hasn't recorded anything bar the ride time even though it was showing on the screen.

Who knows what went on there :confused:

https://www.strava.com/activities/4417379414/overview is the Tacx one

https://www.strava.com/activities/4417435272 is the ****** one. If the numbers on the Garmin were from the 4iiii then they seemed lower, quite a bit at points. I had instant and 3s power and Zwift is set for instant I think. Unless I had the Tacx connected to the Garmin and Zwift if that is possible? That would have recorded power then :o
 
Soldato
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All fitted and updated, battery is at 50% out the box annoyingly but looking forward to some Z2 rides now I can pace it.

My battery died quite quickly despite the little tab to ensure it wasn't making a connection. I guess if stored in the cold for many months though they won't fair well.

(I still did not do an FTP test.. had the power meter nearly a year now....)
 
Soldato
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Mine didn't even have a tab to prevent a connection lol.

My boss was ripping into me saying it's a waste of money and a load of pish. Maybe £200 would have been better spent on a massage going by how my body feels :D
 
Soldato
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Tried to to do a comparison with the Tacx hooked up to Zwift and my 4iiii via my Garmin but it looks like the Garmin hasn't recorded anything bar the ride time even though it was showing on the screen.

Who knows what went on there :confused:
Garmin woes! ;)

Not sure why, might be able to understand it if there was no power data at all, but there's that 'blip' at the end which does mean something was working and broadcasting. With the HR data showing similar I'd squarely place the blame on the Garmin. ANT+ from the Tacx could connect to both, but think the BT is generally only single, but again trainer is generally transmitting BT & ANT+ so you can use 1 on head unit and 1 on laptop/tablet.

Maybe just take the 5w average and the 329W average and go somewhere between, 200W? Were you even pushing bro? ;)

More seriously - great numbers and ride, incredible effort that deep for that long, just backing up with the numbers, showing what you're capable of and have been doing all along. Chapeau!

(I still did not do an FTP test.. had the power meter nearly a year now....)
FTP tests are overrated! I've not completed one for over 12 months - after a series of blowing myself up on them in the spring, I just gave up. Last one I actually completed was October 2019. I did a couple of ramp tests instead and seemed a little on the low side, but was near to where I expected so just used those figures. As I'm not doing any real training based off it, it doesn't bother me. Might be worth trying if you have a longer/steady enough climb? Maybe a good Z3 ride out/long warm up, then start at 250W and increase by 25-30W every 60s until you blow (rather than starting quite low as the Zwift one does). So a 5-6 minute climb should be more than enough?

My boss was ripping into me saying it's a waste of money and a load of pish. Maybe £200 would have been better spent on a massage going by how my body feels :D
He's just cranky as you didn't buy it through the shop lol, or you just been half wheeling/dropping him too much ;)
 
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Tried to to do a comparison with the Tacx hooked up to Zwift and my 4iiii via my Garmin but it looks like the Garmin hasn't recorded anything bar the ride time even though it was showing on the screen.

Who knows what went on there :confused:

https://www.strava.com/activities/4417379414/overview is the Tacx one

https://www.strava.com/activities/4417435272 is the ****** one. If the numbers on the Garmin were from the 4iiii then they seemed lower, quite a bit at points. I had instant and 3s power and Zwift is set for instant I think. Unless I had the Tacx connected to the Garmin and Zwift if that is possible? That would have recorded power then :o
Did you calibrate the 4iii on the garmin prior?
 
Soldato
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Tried to to do a comparison with the Tacx hooked up to Zwift and my 4iiii via my Garmin but it looks like the Garmin hasn't recorded anything bar the ride time even though it was showing on the screen.

Who knows what went on there :confused:

https://www.strava.com/activities/4417379414/overview is the Tacx one

https://www.strava.com/activities/4417435272 is the ****** one. If the numbers on the Garmin were from the 4iiii then they seemed lower, quite a bit at points. I had instant and 3s power and Zwift is set for instant I think. Unless I had the Tacx connected to the Garmin and Zwift if that is possible? That would have recorded power then :o

What are you using for Zwift? Windows computer, iPad? Let me know and I can help you a bit more with dual recording.

What TacX do you have? If you can calibrate it then spin it easy for 15mins and then do a calibration on both the TacX and the 4iii.
 
Soldato
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FTP is a training tool in your toolbox.
FTP isn't a 20min test. It's also not a ramp test.
It also isn't overrated for most people. It is very useful if you actually use it for what it is.

About it not being a measure of how "good a rider" you are is absolutely true. It applies no specificity to the individual or their strengths but it has never ever been for that! It's stupid people that think like that in terms of the metric. Leave them to it and use your measured FTP figure for what it is actually for :)
 
Soldato
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I set up the tacx vortex span it for a few minutes then calibrated it on my phone.

Garmin picked up the 4iiii and I did the calibrate through that and had also through the 4iiii app.

Windows 10 running zwift, I swear my garmin was reading same cadence as zwift but power numbers were different. I'm sure I hit start 15 seconds before the race start so it wasn't that.
 
Soldato
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Garmin woes! ;)

Not sure why, might be able to understand it if there was no power data at all, but there's that 'blip' at the end which does mean something was working and broadcasting. With the HR data showing similar I'd squarely place the blame on the Garmin. ANT+ from the Tacx could connect to both, but think the BT is generally only single, but again trainer is generally transmitting BT & ANT+ so you can use 1 on head unit and 1 on laptop/tablet.

Maybe just take the 5w average and the 329W average and go somewhere between, 200W? Were you even pushing bro? ;)

More seriously - great numbers and ride, incredible effort that deep for that long, just backing up with the numbers, showing what you're capable of and have been doing all along. Chapeau!

FTP tests are overrated! I've not completed one for over 12 months - after a series of blowing myself up on them in the spring, I just gave up. Last one I actually completed was October 2019. I did a couple of ramp tests instead and seemed a little on the low side, but was near to where I expected so just used those figures. As I'm not doing any real training based off it, it doesn't bother me. Might be worth trying if you have a longer/steady enough climb? Maybe a good Z3 ride out/long warm up, then start at 250W and increase by 25-30W every 60s until you blow (rather than starting quite low as the Zwift one does). So a 5-6 minute climb should be more than enough?

He's just cranky as you didn't buy it through the shop lol, or you just been half wheeling/dropping him too much ;)

That makes sense blaming the garmin. I'll try it again another day.

I'd say my actual crank arm power average could be around 300w if not lower. Felt ******* hard though:o

After the climb the descent had the turbo spinning pit showing 400w but garmin showing 300w in sure. Went far too hard thinking the finish was earlier if you look at the data haha.


He's just salty as he's sick of hearing about people using power and having aero skinsuits but they can't tell where the wind is from or are tactically retarded. He's won plenty of races without any stats, just eyeball rolling efforts to get across to breaks etc. How he describes going from being good in Scotland to going flat out just to stay in the bunch in a Premier calender in England is funny.
 
Soldato
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I set up the tacx vortex span it for a few minutes then calibrated it on my phone.

Garmin picked up the 4iiii and I did the calibrate through that and had also through the 4iiii app.

Windows 10 running zwift, I swear my garmin was reading same cadence as zwift but power numbers were different. I'm sure I hit start 15 seconds before the race start so it wasn't that.

Weird. If your win10 machine has Bluetooth I would pair the trainer to that.
Make sure Garmin is indoor mode or has GPS disabled. Then pair the 4iii to that via ANT+

Do you have a cadence sensor as well on the crank? Or were you using the 4iii as your cadence sensor to Zwift but using the Tacx as power source on Zwift also? If 4iii was paired via ANT+ as cadence to Zwift but also paired to the Garmin as ANT+ then this might be the source of your problem. Pure guessing though, you maybe have another cadence sensor on the crank you paired to Zwift.

With it being a wheel on trainer I will expect the two sources to be quite a bit out to be honest. It's worth doing, genuinely interested to see how a wheel on fairs compared to a PM but I do expect it to be quite badly out.
 
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