Ron Atkinson has quit ITV after rascist comment.

[HangTime]

Originally posted by Deadly Ferret


If you happened to be short and I for some reason called you an old midget, and you felt insulted by it, going by your principle above you would have the right to dictate that I can't use the word anymore? That's an outrage...you old midget.

In essence, yes that is correct, unless you think that going arond deliberately insulting people is an acceptable pastime You would have course be free to use the "old midget" phrase when out of earshot of people who had been specifically offended by it in the past (i.e. me in this case).

The point I was trying to make is that because of the way they have been used in the past, these "offensive terms" (and I'm not talking about midgets now ) may become synonymous with feelings of insult, anger etc to some people. Generally speaking, if somebody preceeds a racial group with the F-word it is likely to cause upset to some people. It's unneccesary, you (anyone) could quite as easily make your point without using such inflammatory language.

 

[Nim]

People in the media are going to be held up to a far higher standard than anyone else, and rightly so. Whether the word ****** is acceptable to use is a matter for SC, but I'm going to agree with the idea that just because someone thinks a word isn't offensive, doesn't make it ok to use if other people think it is, unless as pointed out, you like to make a habit of insulting people.

 

[Spud21]

Originally posted by HangTime
I guess we have to remember that as he is 65 years old, from "the bad old days" as it were, things like this could have been ingrained in him a long time ago, and even though he knows it's wrong to use such terms, in the heat of the moment it just slipped out. Like I said earlier, there's nothing in his general behaviour as a manager or pundit, what he says on air etc which made me think he was racist. He had no problem with signing and playing black players at a time when they weren't so common, heck there were quite a few at Villa back in the day. Did he sign Mcgrath for MU too?

I'm not saying the fact that he is old excuses his behaviour, you just can't say those type of things anymore, he should know better and it's right that has resigned. I just don't think that deep down, he is an evil person in that regard.

I for one will miss his commentary, classic ronglish and whatever anyone else says, I think he reads the game better than anyone on terrestrial TV. The number of times he correctly predicts stuff is uncanny.

I do agree with that mostly. he grewe up in an age in which rascism was socially acceptable. I don't think he is rascist, but he was brought up in a time where that sort of thing would be considered normal. he knows it is wrong so will not say it, but in the heat of the moment when you are angry or whatever it is all too easy for anyone to say things that are unacceptable.

personally i don't think the word ****** on it's own, no word is, but the way he used it makes it offensive. The word in it's self is nothing but a descriptive word, latin for black is it not ? much as negro is spanish for black. But if you call someone a lazy ****** then you are inviting problems, not necessarily because you used the word ******, but because it was used in a derogotory way, which is in essence rascist.

 

[WushuMaster]

Well really he was the only half interesting pundit on ITV. Now were left with that flipping idiot McCoist and that other twit Townsend. How tremendously boring.

Bring on Match of the Day

WM

 

[Deadly Ferret]

Ally McCoist was a magic striker, best out of Scotland ever that I can think of and better than most English strikers, but in all fairness listening to him is as fun as a trying to light a cigar by rubbing two sticks together.

 

[HangTime]

Originally posted by WushuMaster
Well really he was the only half interesting pundit on ITV. Now were left with that flipping idiot McCoist and that other twit Townsend. How tremendously boring.

Bring on Match of the Day

WM

Wait, it gets worse. ITV in shock racism scandal! What's the knee-jerk reaction we can expect from them for the rest of the season?

Yep, you guessed it. Roll out the black pundits Mark my words, we are gonna have Robbie Earle shoved down our throats like never before.

 

[wassap]

He is an idiot, and should have known better, but in light of his apology he should get his job back.

It does annoy me tho why ws there a need to make a reference to a persons race or ethinicity, just say they are a ******* ****or what ever but no need to bring race into it.

Oh and to those who dont see the words, ****/******/jock offensive, 99 times out of a hundred these words have only ever been used in a derogotary manner, i challenge you to go and shout these words in the middle of southall/brixton/glasgow and see whther they cause offense or not

 

[MikeTimbers]

<strawman>
Had Ron been black and said ******, would he have been banned? If not, then to ban him because he is white and said ******, is racial discrimination.
</strawman>

 

[Goatboy]

Kinda hard to be so outraged about a word that so commonplace, I'm sure theres a least a couple of songs in the top 40 right now that feature it.

****** nowadays is like the term ***** to descrbie the 'low end' of the social scale of black people, Chris Rock is always on about ******* versus black people.

 

[afraser2k]

Originally posted by Deadly Ferret
Ally McCoist was a magic striker, best out of Scotland ever that I can think of and better than most English strikers, but in all fairness listening to him is as fun as a trying to light a cigar by rubbing two sticks together.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. Also, do you lot get Archie Knox at all? He's the worst of the lot IMO.

 

[joyeux]

Enjoy your holiday

 

[1337_KR3W]

if his comments are true whats the problem? im not a big follower of football but if someone said that about a person i knew and they were both black and lazy i woudlnt see the problem. Just another case of PCness gone too far imo.

 

[VR46]

Originally posted by Deadly Ferret
Bah. It's only words. He is lazy, and he is black. I know people get all offended and outraged when someone says ******, and Atkinison should have had the common sense to realize that PC has removed free speech to such an extent he wouldn't get away with saying what he said, but the comment isn't necessarily racist. ****** is just another word to describe black people, but one which has become taboo because of the way some people in times past used it in derogatory fashion. It wasn't all people that used it derogatorily though; many used it just as a descriptor.

I sometimes call an old school friend of mine a ******* **** ****, because he's Indian not Pakistani and it gets up his nose , but that's not racist and perhaps Atkinison's comment was as harmless. I'm sure if it had been someone from Scotland he'd have substituted jock in for ******. It might just be something about the person he can latch onto and use in his huff, and doesn't really mean anything. Just because colour or race is mentioned, is not in and of itself racist.

If I'd heard that as a manager, he'd refused to sign Desailly 'because [the comment]', then I'd believe him to be racist, but I'd need more evidence to believe he was being racist in this instance instead of just blowing off steam...

It's a shame he didn't use 'frog' instead though...

I think he is totally out of order and the N word is very offensive indeed.

 

[Roughneck]

No sympathy for him , He only sorry cause he got caught

theres no way he didnt know that what he said would cause a storm if it was picked up.

if I called anyone at my work what he said Id be sacked on the spot

 

[Big Kev]

Originally posted by VR46
I think he is totally out of order and the N word is very offensive indeed.

I totally agree, that word is never used in an acceptable manner.

 

[Syph]

****** is a particularly offensive word when used by whites to describe a black person. A black person will tell you it's their word - hence many blacks, especially males, referring to one another as '******' in a friendly term. I've heard it used by a black on black as a derogatory term also.

I personally don't use the word myself, but I don't think I would be offended by it if I was black. I had a black mate who used to call me honky, and on a few drunken occasions he called me ****** too. I've called him ******, but I didn't feel comfortable using it, and he wasn't offended.

Back on topic, Ron was perhaps out of order to 'descriminate', he could have called him a 'lazy b'stard' as opposed to adding ****** to it. If Desailly was ginger though, I suppose he would have called him a 'lazy ginger b'stard' - I think he was just using a term which signified what the person 'is'.

I'll miss him though, he seems far too cuddly (lol) to be a racist, and as someone stated, it's probably a combination of his generation and heat of the moment, rather than an attack on the black race as a whole.

 

[daz]

In the context of Ron Atkinson's usage of the word "******", it would be deemed offensive by most.

I can call my mate another word for a penis or whatever and he would know i was joking around. Call a stranger in a pub a synonym for penis and you would probably get a right hook to the jaw; or at least some stern words in reply.

Basically, the context was unacceptable and that's why he had to go.

 

[Syph]

Originally posted by daz
In the context of Ron Atkinson's usage of the word "******", it would be deemed offensive by most.

I can call my mate another word for a penis or whatever and he would know i was joking around. Call a stranger in a pub a synonym for penis and you would probably get a right hook to the jaw; or at least some stern words in reply.

Basically, the context was unacceptable and that's why he had to go.

Yep.

 

[JohnnyG]

Originally posted by Deadly Ferret
Ally McCoist was a magic striker, best out of Scotland ever

Dalglish?

Bigot Ron's been on the radio trying to dig himself out of this hole, it's going to take an awful lot of digging. Cyrille Regis was on too, saying how disappointed he was, having considered Ron a great guy all the time, now this has changed all that

 

[Deadly Ferret]

Originally posted by VR46
I think he is totally out of order and the N word is very offensive indeed.

I've got a trio of violinists on standby, but I don't think that will be enough. To be on the safe side, let's just make sure there are some counsellors ready and waiting to deal with any offended peoples' problems. Let's also set up a hound-the-word-******-out-of-use-whilst-still-keeping-it-in-public-memory quango to ensure that a gigantic chip is passed on to the collective shoulder of successive generations.

Originally posted by JohnnyG
Dalglish?

No. McCoist!