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Root of all evil

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by V-Spec, 9 Jan 2006.

  1. V-Spec

    Mobster

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    Just watched channel 4's Root of all evil where Professor Richard Dawkins travelled to different countries, looked at different faiths and tied together how silly it really all is, describing faith as the process of "non thinking" did anyone else see it? I thought it was pretty good.
     
  2. aztechnology

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    to be honest, whilst it raised some valid and interesting points, it think the argument presented for some parts was both fundamentally flawed and not particularly well presented. For such an eminent scientist in the field I was left a little dissapointed.

    If the discussion here gets a little lively I might join back in, but I think we discussed this ad-nauseum a week or two ago with that evolution thread here

    If anyone read the Guardian on Saturday It had a very well rounded critique of the series. I will still wathc the rest of the series though, so much better that celebrity(?) big brother.
     
  3. hp01jpc

    Wise Guy

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    I was thinking about starting a thread on this program if no one had done already. I thought it was fantastic, yet scary. It's such an emotive subject I don't know how far I want to go expressing my views on this forum even, but suffice to say I agree whole heartedly with what he was putting across.

    I've never been a religious person myself, and I am at a loss when I see such steadfastly dogmatic groups exerting such an influence on modern society. The fact that Evangelical sects in the US in particular have such close ties with the government is something I find scary to the extreme. Fair play to the groups of parents who recently took that school's board to court for enforcing a policy whereby Creationism was being taught in Science classes as an 'alternative theory'.

    Excellent programming, and an excellent presenter. If you enjoyed that V-Spec and found yourself in harmony with Dawkins' views, you should pick up some of his books if you haven't done so already. "The Selfish Gene" is the most popular, but he's done others.
     
  4. AJUK

    Man of Honour

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    Superb TV and should have been essential viewing for everyone. I think one of his closing statements summed it all up nicely. It was on the lines that mankind cannot move forward until we stop believing in superstition, fairy tales and fallacy. Religion is truly the 'root of all evil'
     
  5. V-Spec

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    Might have to read that.

    I found the program pretty good, whilst it didn't describe to me anything I didn't already know, I thought the way it was put across with no regard for political correctness or respect of anyones faith was good. I've seen evangelical gatherings in real life before, and I have to say, people who follow that stuff must really be missing something somewhere, its frightening to watch them and their children lap it up.
    I also agree with what he says about people practising faith which involves terrorism ie. Islam and how everyone involved is part of the fabric, whether its killing people or in a mosque, they're all practising the extremism of being bound to such a faith. I know several muslim guys and each and everyone one of them has actually told me, that one day Islam will rule the world, on the outset, they're really nice guys, but they know one day 100% without a doubt, Islam will one day rule the planet, if thats not extreme what is?
    I thought the way he put across the similarities in all religions having the "100% no doubt factor" with no evidence or question for such silly beliefs, was quite funny. I found the fact that 48% of americans believe the universe is less than 10000 years old seldom funny, although there is question as to who was surveyed America is a very religious country and it wouldn't suprise me if those figures were almost correct, if a little out. I had this argument with a priest once, I asked him where fossils came from, he said God put them there to hide the truth, he was convinced this was the way and it couldn't be argued.
    Religion and gods etc are an impossibility because the moment they exist they become scientific and no longer a belief, they become scientific.

    I thought the american Pastor, Dawkins interviewed was a terrible person, he was full of deciept, the kind of person who cannot be proven wrong because he argues points which are neither unprovable or provable, (the orbiting teapot for example)

    I find it terrible how children are taken to church or similar religious gathering I agree children need to be taught correctly and brought up in responsible way, but to fill them with religious babble from a very young age I find highly destructive, I belive people should find their own way in life and not have things drilled into them from a young age, if they grow up knowing the facts and seeing evidence of what goes on around them they're far less likley to be sucked in.
     
  6. Dingo

    Banned

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    But that's just the point isn't it, if the religious groups didn't indoctrinate and people were given free will to choose, then they would probably choose not to be religious and break the cycle of power over their lives......hardly likely to make the Imans\Priests\Clergy happy is it?!! :(
     
  7. V-Spec

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    lol. who cares whether the Imans\Priests\Clergy are happy. You're definitley correct though, if people were allowed to think for themselves we would live in a religion free world.
     
  8. Dolph

    Man of Honour

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    Haven't we done this subject to death enough times?

    It always ends up with the same thing. People who want to put their faith in science or 'rationality' declaring themselves as some kind of moral superiors while totally failing to see that their stance is identical to most religious fundamentalists, a few other people proclaiming their religion to be truth, and most people sat in the middle pointing out that the actions of people, and the greed of people, are what is truely to blame, and religion is just the convinent excuse (and if it didnt' exist, another one would be found).
     
  9. THMRK

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    I think this subject is done once a month.
     
  10. aztechnology

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    The thing is, this seems to be the point that Prof. Dawkins misses in the TV program. We have disussed all this at length (and sometimes even rationally) but Prof dawkins doesn't seem to have taken this stand point (that you can't rationalise religion). It is (so far) a viewpoint about all the bad points of organised religion in so far as it supports his arguments, with no attempt to discuss the wider social and political agruments of any of the points he has raised, and as such any discussion of religion is flawed. So far, his point that religion is "The Root of All Evil" is far from conclusive, though I will wait to see what the next episode brings.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2006
  11. aztechnology

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    and I'm suree that next monday we can start again ;) (I think that's when Part 2 is )
     
  12. Bear

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    For a professor, I didnt think he was too smart and the evangalist tore him to shreds and made him look totally stupid.
     
  13. V-Spec

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    I totally agree evangalists are terrible people, impossible to argue against, they make a living from controlling people.
     
  14. Tax Evader

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    Good business people.
     
  15. aztechnology

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    That's a bit of a carte blanche statement. I agree some are, and Ted Haggard seems a nasty piece of work, (I laughed out loud when Ted told the Prof not to be arrogant, very funny that the most arrogant man I have seen for ages was preaching humility), but many evangelicals are much more open minded that Ted Haggard.

    As to the Prof being shown as smart, think a couple of points where fairly obvious. It seems that the Prof can't really hold his side of the arguement when it becomes less than a civil discussion and was intimidated by both Ted Haggard and the crazy fanatical NY muslim brother. I also think that perhaps the fact that the Prof was basically shouted down by "crazies" added weight to the Profs arguments against fanatical religion and so was an intentional step on behalf of the authors.
     
  16. semi-pro waster

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    It is an interesting standpoint that religion is the root of all evil but Professor Dawkins came across as irritating and as intolerant of other views as those he was claiming to be superior to because of his belief in science. I don't personally believe that religion is or can be the root of all evil, I think it can cause 'good' people to do bad things in the name of religion but so can the pursuit of money or power etc which doesn't exactly make for a water-tight argument.

    I'm not religious but I would never try to dissuade anyone from believing in religion, it is their right to believe in whatever or whomever they should choose and as long as people don't try to force their beliefs on me or anyone else* I'm entirely happy for them to go on believing in anything whether that be religion, science or that the moon is made of cheese.

    *I'm including this caveat because I don't think that anyone has the right to inflict their beliefs on others where it would cause suffering.
     
  17. Mr Jack

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    I meant to video the show, but forgot. Damnit.

    I like Dawkins, his writings on science are always highly readable and well researched but when he gets off into his there is no god and Dawkins is his prophet gig he seems to me to have lost the plot. I would like to have seen him make his case though.
     
  18. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

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    Bigotry for the secular, truly we have come full circle. Praise Be!
     
  19. aztechnology

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    it's a 2 part thing, part 2 is next week AFAIK
     
  20. nero120

    Soldato

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    Good idea. Lets just not educate kids at all because we wouldn't to 'drill anything into them', would we?

    Of course that is rediculous. All education is indoctrination, whether religious or secular. My mother took me to church since I was very young, not to 'brainwash' me (one could actually argue the point), but to give me a moral upbringing that she believed would help me become a well rounded person. When I started to question I was not silenced, and when I left the faith I wasn't resisted. I was allowed to think with my own mind and make my own decisions. So I totally disagree with what you say, because even though I do not believe in the christian god anymore, I do see the value in my upbringing.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2006