That's the thing, they haven't really had to worry about strategy for the last few years because the strategy has been we have the best car and drive off into the distance...
Now they are going to actually have to think about it.Poll: Russian Grand Prix 2017, Sochi - Race 4/20
- Thread starter Shimmy
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That's the thing, they haven't really had to worry about strategy for the last few years because the strategy has been we have the best car and drive off into the distance...
Now they are going to actually have to think about it.
Man of Honour
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Ferrari looking very strong.
Man of Honour
Man that all red front row gives me flashbacks to the early 2000s. I thought the first few races might've been a fluke, but it definitely seems like Ferrari are faster than Mercedes this year.
The replacement parts may be an issue in the latter half of the season though.
The replacement parts may be an issue in the latter half of the season though.
Caporegime
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AS much as I want to have real competition, it's pretty ridiculously obvious this is the result of unlimited testing in 2015. I still find it hilarious that everyone thought it would result in some uber 2016 car and that they wouldn't dedicate the massive majority of extra testing to the new regulation period.
AFAIK there are major limits on wind tunnel testing when it comes to the chassis/model's you are allowed. I believe you are allowed a single model and you would I presume, need to have your current chassis to do any testing for that year that was relevant. Meaning with unlimited/unregulated wind tunnel time they could build a dozen different models and test a whole range of different concepts for 2017. Where every other team(bar Haas, who by default were the Ferrari team) had no ability to build a specific 2017 model, let alone an unlimited amount, to verify and hone in on the best concept for the new regulation periods.
I think one of the reasons RBR isn't as good as it was is they still have effectively their 2010-13 concept, just adjusted. Due to limited computer and wind tunnel testing it's easier/more viable to hone the concept you know than try entirely new concepts as if they turn into a bad path you end up screwed. Merc, RBR, everyone has just been evolving existing designs. Ferrari are the sole car to have a complete revolution in aero concept, chassis design, everything.
I think into new regulation periods testing has to be relaxed, giving teams extra time and extra models to come up with a completely new design rather than be stuck evolving the last one.
Just because the concept worked well for 2014-17, the aero didn't change all that much from 2010-2013 in the first place, it doesn't mean as a package that is anywhere close to the best concept for a completely reworked aero design.
It's great to see Ferrari competitive, but this seems like a blindingly unfair and ridiculous way to bring in new aero rules. CHanging aero massively but limiting the teams ability to try out multiple concepts, all while allowing a huge loophole(now closed precisely because of what Ferrari did) that allows a single team to do just that is largely ridiculous.
The gap between Merc, Ferrari and even Red Bull let alone the rest is now insane.
Money talks. And more money talks a lot more loudly at the moment. The gap between the haves and have nots has never been bigger recently.
I still believe there should be some sort of staggered, in season testing. No dry podium in past 24 months or a new team, 500km testing during the season allowed with race drivers or 750km with young/reserve drivers. 1-3 dry podiums 500km with reserve/young drivers, 350km race drivers. Dry race win, 250km no matter who drives. Or something. Give the chance for those lower teams to catch up.
I still believe there should be some sort of staggered, in season testing. No dry podium in past 24 months or a new team, 500km testing during the season allowed with race drivers or 750km with young/reserve drivers. 1-3 dry podiums 500km with reserve/young drivers, 350km race drivers. Dry race win, 250km no matter who drives. Or something. Give the chance for those lower teams to catch up.
Soldato
There's always some conspiracy to blame it on when the Ferraris are at the front.
^Sounds like a whole load of upset and conjecture to me (the final regs weren't even finalised until Feb 16)? Even if true how is this any different to Mercedes having a supposed headstart in designing their engine for the hybrid era...
I'm sure your quite right...but I am just happy to see Ferrari coming good again!
To be fair when unlimited testing was allowed for all in the era gone before...guess who was winning...Ferrari with Schumacher...!
Caporegime
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Dear lord, Ferrari doing unlimited testing under Haas is FACT. Merc have commented on it, they say it was clever, the FIA went and saw what was going on and directly made a change to the rules to PREVENT IT HAPPENING AGAIN. Absolutely no one anywhere has denied it happened, there was no rules broken because it was a loophole. Haas was allowed entirely unlimited testing due to not having entered a car. Ferrari/Haas had a massive technology link up. It happened, the fact that Ferrari is the sole team to make monumental aero design changes in 2017 should make it plainly obvious.
I have no problem with Ferrari winning, I don't care about teams, I like Merc, I liked Mclaren till they got **** and embarrassing, I like FI, I historically like Williams but can't stand the current team being as unambitious as they are and find Smedley/Massa combination unbearable. I like RBR, I really like TR.
This is about rules preventing interesting changes. The loophole allowed Ferrari to test multiple concepts for a brand new aero period, this is what the rules should allow. I want to see aero regulation changes that make everyone start from scratch, make everyone turn up to testing with a DIFFERENT damn idea, a different car and new ideas. Instead everyone turned up having turned their car into as much of the 2016 Merc as possible. Ferrari are like the only team who turned up with something NEW, that is fantastic. I don't car what the cars look like, F1 has been about development. One of the reasons we haven't seen things like Mclaren being a complete dog to start 2009 and pretty great by the end, is the cars aren't changing from one regulation change to another, it's dire for the sport and is giving us generic looking car designs with the biggest differences being how many pointy bits on wings appear over a season due to the difference in budgets.
We need rules that allow every team to test a half dozen concepts and turn up with different ideas. The current rules are stifling and unfortunately probably the biggest reason Ferrari have a seemingly better concept is they weren't limited to evolution of existing designs.
I mostly don't care who wins races or titles. I want to see interest, I want to see the development fight over the season that has previously defined F1, I want to see new ideas and fixes and improvements to them over a year. I want to see a Ferrari dominate the first 5 races, the Merc dominate the next 5, then the RBR dominate the end of the season. I want to see new bits making drastic differences to the order. Not everyone turn up and the order till the next regulation period established within 5 races. Calling it now, due to the rules and the inability to make huge changes, Merc/Ferrari designs won't change hugely over the next 3 years and Merc/Ferrari are going to kill everyone else badly, yeah it's closer out of them but Ferrari's loophole shows just how and why the rules are broken and what is missing from F1. You can't make a Ferrari like step from one season to the next without getting completely around the current rules.
Caporegime
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That's cool, but there was still a lot of variability in which teams where in which order, development was more exciting. I don't care if Ferrari win the next 10 seasons, as above I absolutely love that Ferrari have a genuinely different car, my issue is that the rules and the way they got around them ensures they were the only team with a new car... that is my problem, not Ferrari winning, but that only Ferrari were able to be in a situation to create a new car.
Currently I dislike it because Ferrari have gained a hugely unfair advantage... Ferrari won in an unlimited testing period against other cars that also had unlimited testing. If Ferrari win this year it will be in large part because they had unlimited testing against cars that did NOT have unlimited testing, which is a very very different situation.
Suggest you look up the meaning of conjecture. I can't be bothered to read another one of your long winded posts. As I said even if true it's no different to the supposed headstart Mercedes had on designing the hybrid engines which Ecclestone intimated a couple of years back.
Just to note the FIA concluded that there was no evidence of breach of Appendices 6 and 8 as part of their investigation into the Ferrari/Haas relationship so no...not quite 'FACT' as you so eloquently put.
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/2015 SPORTING REGULATIONS 2014-12-03.pdf
Appendix 8 being the rules around restricted wind tunnel and cfd testing...so as I said everything you wrote, pure conjecture.
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So they used their initiative and made huge gains...isn't that F1? RBR did it with TR and Brawn did it with their double diffuser.
You seem to think that Ferrari have gained an 'unfair advantage.' They have pushed the envelope and are reaping the rewards...nothing to see here!
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
Can't see the top 4 changing positions at all. Not exactly an overtaking track 
Caporegime
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Yeah, try reading even a little bit. Or go back and quote where I said they broke the rules, because I specifically said they didn't. The FIA went to check what they were doing because they knew they were doing extra testing(this was Ferrari people working 'for' Haas). They weren't breaking the rules, the rules didn't stop them doing this. The rules had a loophole, the FIA closed this loophole... because they went to see a load of 'ex' Ferrari employees working for Haas's aero team, before going back to work for Ferrari and thinking better close that loophole that Ferrari didn't use? Mercedes said well done for doing something smart... which was literally nothing at all and Ferrari made a monumental leap forwards with a completely different concept car despite having no normal within the rules ability to test it properly?
As for the rest, no, it is different to the 'supposed' headstart Mercedes had, because they didn't have a headstart, it's really that simple. Right now they are working on finalising what engines they'll use for 2020, they started talking about it at least 18 months ago and behind closed doors probably from 2014. Any team is free to start work on the next engine now or any time in the past two years, or the last 30 years(though they'd need an ability to see the future really). With the hybrids they finalised v6 turbo hybrid with 160bhp mgu-k, they were talking about it for 2-3 years before that, in that time ie was basically 99% going to be a hybrid turbo, it may have ended up an inline 4, or maybe a v8, and maybe 120 or 200bhp mgu-k... but the initial starting point would be the same pretty much either way, start working on ideas on how to make a turbo hybrid. Merc supposedly started work 6 months before the final decision, long after turbo hybrid was agreed upon. Renault and Ferrari were free to do so, in fact the timeline Renault give suggests they started work 6 months after the final decision was made... is that Merc's fault too? There was no rule preventing development and no rule that only allowed Merc to do this. Brawn wasn't the only one in on these meetings and in no way were Ferrari, Renault and Merc not all involved with the decision on what engines to make and no way was the final result a surprise to absolutely anyone at all.
Ferrari were the only team able to exploit this loophole, no one else was in a position to and it absolutely broke the spirit of the rules which is that every team with an entered car has the exact same amount of testing time available to them. Comparing a choice by Renault/Ferrari on when they wanted to start development with unlimited testing available to a single team and which the FIA deemed the need to close the loophole because it broke the spirit of the rules is absurd.
What RBR 'DID' (past tense) is irrelevant, the rules were different then, has no effect on this year and they have stuck to the rules(different chassis, different wind tunnel time, single testing model) since they were introduced. Ferrari got around the rules in a massive way.
Soldato
hope Bottas has a strong back bone and doesn't move over
Soldato
Agreed. I think he has the edge on LH, certainly this weekend.