Salary Discussion

[MC 111]

Hello All

I recently requested a pay review with the Manager Director of the company I work for and after discussing it with him I feel like we are miles apart in terms of Salary. Which is why I'm here really, I want to know whether or not my expectations are too high or that I'm genuine paid less than the going rate for someone in a role similar to mine.

I've been with the company for two years, having joined them straight from Sixth Form. My role varies between Administration and Marketing. For the Marketing, there isn't another member of staff within the company that is involved in this (apart from the MD) and my responsibilities include:

• Creating and Sending all of the company mailings, newsletters and email marketing
• Managing the company LinkedIn and Twitter accounts
• Updating company E-Paper, which contains all the latest industry news
• Compiling of potential customers list to be used for the Marketing efforts of the company.

For the Administration, my responsibilities include:

• Booking in of company projects.
• Creation of all company project files.
• Review and Audit of Project Files upon Completion.
• Liaising with customers on delivery and collection of their equipment from the site.

The company are currently paying for me to complete a Level 3 in Marketing through the Chartered Institute of Marketing (Approx. £850). However, all the work for this is done out of work hours and in my own time.

I am 20 years old and the company is located in the West Midlands.

From reading the above, what would you guys suggest an expected salary would be?

Thank you.

 

[dowie]

For a basic admin role for an 18 year old I suspect it could be fairly low, perhaps you become more marketable once you've got the qualification and can put more emphasis on the marketing rather than admin side of things.

Anyway you're worth what people will pay for you and the way to find that out is to apply for jobs, keep in touch with recruiters etc.. even if you're not looking to move at this moment in time.

 

[Jony27]

Is it rude to ask a fellow coworker what they earn?
I'm at a IT company working support for our products, I was here for a year during my placement and they offered me a place once I graduated.
I feel like the salary I was offered is lower compared to the average(I was just happy I was offered the position at the time).
Obviously I wouldn't expect to be making the same as my colleague who has been here 12 years but we all do the same work and have the same responsibilities now.

 

[dowie]

Is it rude to ask a fellow coworker what they earn?

it can be, people often don't want to share that for good reason... tis probably better if it is someone who used to do your role but then moved onto something else - but yeah, absolutely a good idea to try and ask people about pay, on the other hand it isn't necessarily such a good idea to reveal your own to people doing the same job as you (especially if you know you've had a better than average pay rise/bonus etc..)

also should have added OP that plenty of companies have annual pay reviews - if you've been there for 2 years with no pay rise then that ought to be enough reason alone to ask for one (obviously adding in how you've developed etc.. skills you've gained, what you now add to the role etc..). In future I'd try and ask for a pay review every year if they're not offered as standard

 

[skyripper]

What would they have to pay someone with the right skills and aptitude to fill the job if you weren't there?

Companies get stuck in a mindset of "we'll pay Bob based on what he came in on, plus a cost of living raise", Employees get stuck in a mindset of "I'm worth so much more than I was when I started". Neither of them are wrong. Neither of them are right.

 

[D.P.]

Is it rude to ask a fellow coworker what they earn?
I'm at a IT company working support for our products, I was here for a year during my placement and they offered me a place once I graduated.
I feel like the salary I was offered is lower compared to the average(I was just happy I was offered the position at the time).
Obviously I wouldn't expect to be making the same as my colleague who has been here 12 years but we all do the same work and have the same responsibilities now.

Some people are strangely sensitive to salary, yet in many organizations it is actually public knowledge. In many countries it is perfectly normal to share salary information.

However, it isn't going to be that useful in helping you find the correct salary because there are numerous reasons why salaries for the same role might differ. E.g., someone might join the company and was getting paid 50K before so i on 55K now, while the other staff doing the exact same job are on 40-42K. If the person needed to be hired to fill a role and no other candidate was appropriate at a lower salary then 55K is the fair salary for that employee.
Also, many will take the view about disposable income, a 20 soemthign year old has much lower expenses than someone with 2-3 kids and a mortgage so perfectly common that some older people will be paid more even for the same direct experience.

I'm in the situation where I get paid a lot more than other engineers doing a similar job and it is pleasant to discuss salaries but I certainly don't think t is rude if someone asks.

 

[D.P.]

What would they have to pay someone with the right skills and aptitude to fill the job if you weren't there?

Companies get stuck in a mindset of "we'll pay Bob based on what he came in on, plus a cost of living raise", Employees get stuck in a mindset of "I'm worth so much more than I was when I started". Neither of them are wrong. Neither of them are right.

It is always worth bearing in mind you are effectively overpaid at the start until you get up to speed and are fully productive. With some of our large code projects it takes -4 before people are really in their optimal productivity. If someones salary hasn't gone up much in 2 years they should think how much better they are now than when they started, but how lucky they were to be paid the full salary when they wee a lot less useful.

 

[MC 111]

it can be, people often don't want to share that for good reason... tis probably better if it is someone who used to do your role but then moved onto something else - but yeah, absolutely a good idea to try and ask people about pay, on the other hand it isn't necessarily such a good idea to reveal your own to people doing the same job as you (especially if you know you've had a better than average pay rise/bonus etc..)

also should have added OP that plenty of companies have annual pay reviews - if you've been there for 2 years with no pay rise then that ought to be enough reason alone to ask for one (obviously adding in how you've developed etc.. skills you've gained, what you now add to the role etc..). In future I'd try and ask for a pay review every year if they're not offered as standard

I brought exactly what you've just said into the meeting when i requested a pay review, I outlined how i feel my skills had developed, how my role has changed and evolved to increase my worth to them. Despite this, my request for an increase was declined which is why i thought i'd ask the question here to see whether it's me with unrealistic expectations of what i should be paid.

 

[MC 111]

It is always worth bearing in mind you are effectively overpaid at the start until you get up to speed and are fully productive. With some of our large code projects it takes -4 before people are really in their optimal productivity. If someones salary hasn't gone up much in 2 years they should think how much better they are now than when they started, but how lucky they were to be paid the full salary when they wee a lot less useful.

I agree with that, however the initial salary was given when my roles and responsibilities were a lot more limited to what i do now..

 

[crinkleshoes]

I agree with that, however the initial salary was given when my roles and responsibilities were a lot more limited to what i do now..

They will have taken you on with your development in mind though, or at least should have... in the early stages as you'd just come out of school - it's unlikely they would have received much value from you without training you.

From your description above - I wouldn't expect you to be on much more than apprentice wage... probably in the £16-20k range.

 

[dowie]

I brought exactly what you've just said into the meeting when i requested a pay review, I outlined how i feel my skills had developed, how my role has changed and evolved to increase my worth to them. Despite this, my request for an increase was declined which is why i thought i'd ask the question here to see whether it's me with unrealistic expectations of what i should be paid.

well if you've already asked for a review and been denied a rise AND you're not happy with what you earn currently then it is time to get your CV out there and look for another job (might be an idea to sit the qualification you're studying for fairly quickly) - that is the way to find out if you're worth more

 

[crinkleshoes]

Note: depending on the terms of you contract, if you leave straight after getting the qualification - they may look to recover the cost of it from you.

 

[MissChief]

Have a look round at other jobs that have your skill sets for both roles. One is likely paid more than the other and while your job doesn't sound super critical to the business your absence could mean some interruption to others. If you're seeing better wages elsewhere and can see your knowledge getting you the job, jump ship.

 

[HangTime]

Don't have much knowledge of this sector but I would guess about £18k.

 

[gEd]

Don't have much knowledge of this sector but I would guess about £18k.

I was about to exactly the same.

 

[Randomface74]

You might have to change jobs to get a significant pay rise, that's just how it works - employers are greedy.

 

[HangTime]

OP I appreciate you may not wish to disclose your current salary, but it would be interesting to know what your expectations are.

 

[FishThrower]

Best and only way to get a significant pay rise is to threaten to leave with another offer on the table with a different company.

If you just ask for a pay rise without another offer, they will just say no... which makes you look weak in future and gives you a even less chance of getting a raise down the line

 

[FL630]

Reading it I was thinking 18-20k.

The sad fact is you're young and inexperienced. Straight out of sixth form they can pay you bugger all (my first job, 10 years ago, I was paid £12,500 to do the same job as others on over double). Add in this that a purely marketing person may earn a lot of money, serious amounts of money in the right setting, they are likely getting cheap labour out of you. In a companies defence, why hire someone inexperienced if you're going to pay them what an experienced person would get paid? Getting you in to do a normal HR job then expanding into marketing means they can get you to do a better paid job at a lower wage too. It's good however to know your worth.

My advice, get a few years of experience under your belt, become more experienced in a niche, such as marketing, then start looking elsewhere. As mentioned above, the threat of leaving also can tempt a pay rise if you're a solid and valued member of their staff.

Good luck!

 

[TNGL]

It's all supply and demand really. Of course, it isn't a fully efficient market but if you were to leave, I'm of the view that it wouldn't take them long to find somebody with your skillset and that is why they haven't bothered to increase your pay. Don't forget, they are thinking of their own pockets too. How profitable are they? Have they seen much growth recently?

Can you attribute a very rough number to how many leads, sales or whatever else you have generated, which has positively impacted the firm's profitability? At least that way you can clearly show how much you are worth to the company in that respect. You could then suggest having a performance related bonus that is somehow tied to this.

To answer your question though and based on a friend in a similar role, I'd say around £15k.

Pro tip: Have loud conversations with recruiters on the phone so that your current employer knows you mean business.

Spoiler

Don't actually do that.