Satellite speakers and sub options

Soldato
Joined
6 Jan 2006
Posts
3,374
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
I'm looking at options for the kitchen for either 2 Sonos 1's or 4 small satellite speakers and a sub. The satellites will need to be white and also possibly the sub but location hasn't been finalised yet so may get away with a black sub. Maybe a bit of a swear word around here but looking at something of the small Bose speakers that you see dotted around the place.

There's no doubt plenty to consider such as mono vs stereo and the amp used to drive them but any initial ideas would be appreciated so I can have a look at some specs and prices.

Edit - budget wise I'd like to keep it under £600 if possible.
 
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Joined
29 May 2010
Posts
6,351
Location
Cheshire
If it's going to be running at low volume then the Bose emphasis on treble and bass humps might actually work well for you.

Of course, the Bose speakers are just speakers; so you need an amp and source(s) to go with them. The Sonos 1 speakers are a complete solution.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Jan 2006
Posts
3,374
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
Yes it will mainly be low volumes for background music but occasionally a bit louder when I’ve got the hoover out Freddie Mercury style!

I had a quick look earlier and I can’t seem to find the small “cube” Bose speakers that I was referring to in my original post so assume they have been discontinued now. Will have a look and see what’s on ebay as not adverse to second hand kit.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 May 2010
Posts
6,351
Location
Cheshire
Yeah, looks like they've dropped the lower-priced speaker range. It's now the Acoustimass 10 series V @ £1,000 which is even more OTT than the normal Bose game, IMO.

For used, you're probably looking at something along the lines of the Acoustimass 6 if you want 5.1, or the Acoustmass 3 if you want stereo and a sub.

I have to be honest and say that Bose doesn't make great home audio speakers. But for background music, or where there's a lot of background noise, it doesn't really matter about the lack of fidelity. It's probably a good idea to remember that the sub is passive, and over all the system isn't that efficient, so you'll need an amp with a bit of poke to keep the bass under control.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 May 2010
Posts
6,351
Location
Cheshire
CA Minx are a definite step up from Bose. The single full-range BMR driver is designed to do both mid and treble, unlike the Bose which is really a midrange-only driver forced to try to do treble. Other advantages are that the CA BMR driver has a wide dispersion. You'll get more articulate bass from whichever sub you partner with the Minx drivers too. Bose subs just tend to bang out a single note bass in a thump-thump-thump style.

Other small full range drivers would be Gallo Sound Spheres, but they'll push your budget; Focal Domes; Monitor Audio Radius 90 / R90 / R90HD (all basically the same aside from a few minor tweaks); and the later versions of the KEF Eggs, though they do need a big of oomph from the amp to start to shine so may not be the best choice for low volume listening.

If you had a nice win on the lottery then the biggest sounding small speakers I've ever heard are the Tannoy Prestige Autograph Mini. They're not tiny like the Bose cubes, but OMG, they throw a mahoosive sound stage. You'll get an idea of the size of the things from this blog. I walked in to a demo room with them playing and was puzzled why there was the sound from big stand-mount speakers when these wine-bottle-tall speakers were perched on stands. Coupled with a excellent sub, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between these and a lot of much bigger high quality speakers. They're epic.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Jan 2006
Posts
3,374
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
The Tannoys look great although sadly not going to fit in the budget! I'll put the lottery on tomorrow though!

I think the CA Minx look like they'll fit the bill both in size and price! I'll see if I can get a demo at RS if they are doing them at the moment. Would you suggest the matching sub or another?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 May 2010
Posts
6,351
Location
Cheshire
Yeah, I knew the Tannoys would be too big. Although slim, they're taller than a lot of small bookshelf speakers. Quite honestly too, it would be a crime to hang them up where little Bose cubes would live.

Subs: For value and performance, I think it's almost impossible to beat BK subs. They sell direct, so there's no dealer premium and credit cm train to load the price.

The smallest of the range is the Gemini II; a 10" sealed sub in a 1ft cube, and has both speaker level (hi-level) and line level (low level) inputs, so it's flexible.

Better is the XLS200. Same size box and a 10" driver, but a better driver and more powerful amp.

Either will knock the socks off the Minx sub, and the Minx sub would run rings around the Bose.

BK makes a wide range of subs. The sealed units are a better choice in general for music, and they're more forgiving of room placement.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 May 2010
Posts
6,351
Location
Cheshire
Ok great, we’ll go for a XLS200 and will 4 of the MINX cubes work in a 9m x 7m room/kitchen?

Lastly, the amp. Would the Cambridge Audio AXA25 be up to the job? Or is there something better at that price point?

The Minx will work in that space, but they'll need to be driven purposefully by the amp before they start to fill the space. It'll be the same with any speakers.

My gut feeling is that the CA AXA25 is very under-powered for the job you have in mind. The headline spec of 25W/ch doesn't tell the full story. There's a lot of detail missing such as whether that power is measures with two channels driven or just one, and whether this is continuous power of just a short burst, and what the distortion figure is, and... and... and.... The only usable bit of info is the 10W rating at 0.1% THD with a 20Hz to 30kHz signal, but again it lacks any useful definitions of how that figure was measured.

Another issue is that the CA amp has just one set of speaker terminals. Connecting two sets of 8 Ohm speakers directly to that amp will result in either a 4 Ohm load - which is bad news for the amp - or a 16 Ohm load which is going to be bad news for the speaker volume in that big room.



What you're looking for is an amp with the ability to drive two sets of speakers (spkrs A + B) and something with some balls. The Sony STR-DH190 FM/Bluetooth receiver is closer to fitting the bill. It is £179 also, but claims to output 2 x 90W RMS in to 8 Ohms with a 20Hz to 20kHz signal and roughly 0.1% THD. I would take that with a pinch of salt because the claimed power consumption is just 200W max and there's no way that any audio amp is that efficient. I'd peg the Sony closer to 50W/ch usable power in stereo mode. It'll be half of that when the amp is running four satellite speakers.

Another amp contender is the Yamaha R-S202D DAB/FM/Bluetooth receiver, with similar power, at £219
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Jan 2006
Posts
3,374
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
Thanks for the help so far @lucid Im not at the point of needing to finalise the plans as the first fix is next week!

If I go the satellite and sub route I’ll be going for the CA Minx and the BK sub however I’m wondering how much of an improvement I’ll see over 2 Sonos 1’s?

I already have one Sonos 1 so would cost me £200 for another, haven’t checked exact prices, compared to the thick end of £1k going down the speaker, sub and amp route.

I guess the question I’m asking is will a grand on the CA route be much better than £400 worth of Sonos gear? Will I walk in and say wow those CA speakers and BK sub are incredible at delivering moderately loud background music via Spotify or to get that wow factor would I need to into a higher price bracket?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 May 2010
Posts
6,351
Location
Cheshire
You've already got the Sonos 1 so you know what that sounds like. If you haven't yet tried it then give Trueplay a whirl to hear the difference it makes. The Sonos 1 or Play 1 is possibly the best sounding smart speaker for it's size and price, but bigger and more expensive speakers do move the goal posts.

The main limitation of the Sonos 1 is bass. As clever as the tech is inside, it can't make up for the small drivers in use. Something like the Amazon Echo Studio is around the same price but physically much bigger, so it's easy to put in a larger bass driver. This is where the sub of the CA/BK combo wins. You can match that by adding the Sonos sub, but it's the best part of £700 alone. Since you already own a Play 1 then the cost to complete the system this way would be £900 (sub + 1x Play 1). If you had to buy this from scratch though the cost would be nearer £1,100. This does keep you within the Sonos ecosystem though.

The CA Min12s (with brackets) and a BK sub would, IMO, fill the space better - particularly at lower volumes where the benefit of 4 sats means there's more points of origin for sound - but a lot rests on the electronic to drive the speakers. You've also then got considerations about the source for the amp and how to control everything whilst keeping it neat.

A pair of Play 5s at a cost of roughlt £1,000 would give you something with the bass weight of conventional loudspeakers with 5" bass drivers, so more in-line with conventional Hi-Fi and less need for a sub, but that doesn't fit with your requirement for small speakers.

To me, the best combination of discreteness and fidelity would be in-ceiling speakers and a Sonos Amp.

Depending on budget, you might be able to do this either in one hit or split it so that you add some extra speakers later when finds allow.

The Sonos Amp is £600, but in one hit it gives you a ballsey power unit and solves source streaming, control and connectivity. Add to this one pair or two pairs of Bluecube BCP65 speakers. These have 6.5" bass drivers, so they do decent bass compared to other in-ceilings upto £350/pr. The BCP65s are £199/pr.

What's more, they're fairly unique at this price level in having 4/8 Ohm impedance switching. What that means is that to run four speakers (2x stereo pairs) doesn't require an amp with a speaker A+B facility. You can take the left channel speaker wire and daisy-chain two speakers from it, each set at 4 Ohms, with the result that it looks like a conventional 8 Ohm load to the amp. Do the same for the right channel with two more speakers and you've got 4 speakers in total running off a 2 channel amp.

In-ceiling speakers do require fire hoods if there's any living space above the area they're installed. That will need factoring in to the budget. Hoody is a brand I would recommend. Hoody 1 is the right size for the BCP65 speakers and it includes some acoustic damping too to help reduce sound leakage up in to any room above. Hoody 1 is around £55~£60 per unit.

Where you're at first fix, you could put in speaker cabling wired for 4 speakers but only install the first pair. Switch these to 8 Ohms at this stage. When you're ready to add the second set then do the cut-outs at the appropriate places with the cable already in place, but then pull down the first set and change the Ohms rating switch to match.

A 4-speaker system would come in at a shade over £1000 + the cost of speaker cable. This would remove the need for a sub taking up floor space. The speakers will go party loud, but they'll also do Hi-Fi performance. Better still, they're very discrete and the headend gear takes up minimal room. You also get to repurpose your existing Play 1 somewhere else in the house.
 
Back
Top Bottom