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Poll: Scottish Independence

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by thenewoc, 14 Dec 2019.

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Should Scotland hold another independence referendum?

  1. Yes

    264 vote(s)
    37.5%
  2. No

    323 vote(s)
    45.9%
  3. Haggis

    117 vote(s)
    16.6%
  1. DrToffnar

    Mobster

    Joined: 25 Jan 2013

    Posts: 3,500

    Very well put. I think lot of English people forget exactly how many factors have changed in the last 4 years. Brexit has changed everything and the idea of 10+ years of heavy conservativism mantling the ship in uncharted waters and re-writing all the rules is absolutely terrifying, especially in a working class strong hold like Scotland.
     
  2. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,446

    Not necesarily. Schengen is not compulsory and the Euro only states you should work towards but gives no timeline which is why some states just carry on as normal. Personally there is nothing wrong with the Euro, lots of people use it on holidays with no problem
     
  3. JeditOjanen

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Feb 2011

    Posts: 5,685

    If Scotland already had an established currency then it might want to keep it, but they'll likely be using a Scots Pound initially pegged to sterling as an interim currency. It would be much more stable and sensible to move to the Euro ASAP.
     
  4. pastymuncher

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 12 Jul 2005

    Posts: 18,886

    Location: Aberlour, NE Scotland

    This is all going to cost us in the end. If the lunatics get their way then Scotland will be a seperate country from the rest of the UK. We already have hefty surcharges this far north from couriers so if we become a seperate country they will have a field day and delivery fees will likely go through the roof. We haven't qualified for free delivery from tech sites such as OCUK and others since the mass move to DPD so already have to pay over the top shipping charges which will only increase should independance happen. If we end up adopting the Euro then we will have exchange fees when buying anything from the rest of the UK on top of this. Then there is the prospect of a hard border and possible import charges which will make day to day items more expensive not to mention severing ties with our biggest trade partner. It's utter madness.

    Somebody metioned it would be better than a perpetual Tory government but that's exactly what we have here in the form of the SNP. In both the UK and Scotland it's all down to a lack of credible opposition and sadly that is why the SNP will win another big victory at next years elections. I am not in favour of any political parties but I will vote for any that has a chance of taking a win away from the SNP and it's helped keep them out of Morayshire the past couple of elections. I will never, under any circumstances, vote for the SNP and the division that they represent. I voted against independance last time and will again in any futre referendums.
     
  5. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 27,040

    The SNP literally only exist because of this situation and will continue to exist in some form until this insipid discussion ends.

    Labour are getting nowhere near government again as they're likely to lose Wales next and so inevitably evolve into the English nationalist party to get votes, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course I'm always willing to be wrong, perhaps they'll defy my cynicism and become a competent party filled with credible, intellectually honest people.
     
    Last edited: 10 Nov 2020
  6. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: 13 Nov 2006

    Posts: 3,977

    Location: Inverkip

    First of all, I welcome your change of heart. There are many across our country who have changed their minds. Scotland can take a better, fairer course than we are currently on with Westminster and with your help we can achieve that.

    1. Scotland will no longer have to balance the books with the Block Grant. We will have the entirety of the tax take of our nation. There is even debate to be had about whether or not we accept any or none of the UK debt.

    2. I think the majority of the country will want to rejoin the EU which would involve free travel between our borders. There is no need to join the Euro but given that parity with the £ isn't far away, it might not be a bad thing at all.

    3. We will indeed have a border with England but it will be a hard border due to the xenophobic Westminster Government and not the fault of Holyrood.
     
  7. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 48,791

    Location: Plymouth

    This is truly faragesque in the level of fantasy.
     
  8. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: 13 Nov 2006

    Posts: 3,977

    Location: Inverkip

    The Scottish people are sovereign, look up the Claim Of Right. The UK is a political union and sovereignty does not belong to Westminster. Spain has already said it would not block Scottish admission to the EU and given the recklessness of Brexit, I doubt any country would be inclined to try to block entry. Saying we would be dead in the water is ludicrous. There are far smaller nations with less resources who are doing perfectly well so why do you think Scotland is individually unable to succeed?
     
  9. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: 13 Nov 2006

    Posts: 3,977

    Location: Inverkip

    Point out the specific points and we can discuss. Why does someone from Plymouth care about Scottish independence anyway?
     
  10. alchal

    Hitman

    Joined: 27 Aug 2019

    Posts: 895

    If Scotland joins the EU and no free trade deal was struck between the UK and the EU prior than would that not mean large import duties and a border with Scotlands largest market etc?
    If so, is trade with the EU going to cover the loss of trade etc with the UK?
     
  11. StuBob

    Hitman

    Joined: 26 Aug 2016

    Posts: 948

    Location: Scotland

    Without any hint of irony said the Brexiteer...


     
  12. alchal

    Hitman

    Joined: 27 Aug 2019

    Posts: 895

    Who is?

    I don't care if we go or stay,I didn't even vote as I was on holiday minding my own business in wales.
    Maybe answer the question instead of going personal ?
     
  13. FMF

    Gangster

    Joined: 8 Jul 2008

    Posts: 214

    In what world would an independent Scotland not take its proportional share of UK debt?

    Also if Scotland rejoins EU and freedom of movement that means a hard border between England and Scotland...
     
  14. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 27,040

    It's fine there's a 'technological solution' for the border, the Tories (our perpetual government) promised it's possible so it must be true.

    Oh and the debt is a matter of negotiation, though after negation it's likely irrelevant.
     
  15. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 48,791

    Location: Plymouth

    Your economic points are pretty much ideal world fantasy for a start. Scotland is a net recipient of cash from the rest of the UK to fund its existing expenditure. This isn't a matter of opinion, but of maths.

    To simply maintain spending, Scotland would have to either borrow or raise taxes. Borrowing at the rate required is incompatible with EU membership rules around deficits, so tax rises or spending cuts are the choices there.

    As to why I care, I don't especially care, but if you're going to make the decision, it needs to be based on the reality of what the outcome will be, not a made up fantasy of what you want it to be. If you need to lie or mislead people to get their support, you're doing it exactly the same way as the brexiteers did, and look how well that's turning out. Do note, please, that I'm not saying an independent Scotland couldn't work, or that it would be unsuccessful, it could work, it could be successful, but again, base the propositions on reality.
     
  16. Rofflay

    Perma Banned

    Joined: 28 Nov 2006

    Posts: 5,758

    Location: N Ireland


    Of course they will have to take thier share! SNP is lying to thier gullable masses! Scotland would take a large share of the UK debt which is what 2trillion? Divide that based on population 66m = 2t so 5.5m = ?


    Second point, Shetland and Orkney do not want any part and stated they also will go independant so that really when supported by Britain would mean Scotland loses the oil fields and fishing Orkey and Shetland block most of this via territorial boundary claims.


    Third point, The EU chest beating will mean taking into account the above two points, Scotland will never meet the EU criteria for entry. It would be like Greece. Scotland would need to get a massive EU bailout and then the EU would set thier budgets and make them go into Greece style austerity. John Major is an absoloute shill and traitor for saying nothing about these points recently he said we should hold two polls sorry but they lost the vote and were doing them a favour. You see Scotlands independance is just a mythical SNP powergrab and the real power like Greece will shift to the EU. That is not independance that is becoming a European vassal state. Boom!

    ;)
     
  17. FMF

    Gangster

    Joined: 8 Jul 2008

    Posts: 214

    Also need to consider the relocation of Edinburgh's financial sector, a considerable hit to GDP I imagine.

    Also doesn't the Barnet formula give Scotland a better spend per capita, surely public debt would have to reflect this.
     
  18. kkelly

    Mobster

    Joined: 8 Oct 2003

    Posts: 2,754

    Location: Glasgow

    For those of us that don't want to leave where do we go :confused:
     
  19. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: 13 Nov 2006

    Posts: 3,977

    Location: Inverkip

    Wooo, I've hit a soft spot there. No contention over any other point other than "they are taking our money".

    Scotland makes do with the Block Grant, which is around half of the tax take in Scotland. Scotland is unable to borrow. How then, have we run up such a large debt when we only spend half of our tax take?
     
  20. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: 13 Nov 2006

    Posts: 3,977

    Location: Inverkip

    Well, after the 2014 IndyRef and Brexit I was told to suck it up.