Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

Kaladon · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:24

So.... here we are again and as such, lets keep this civil cos news of the Indyref2 was out for a little more than 4 hours. Already I'd had folks on my facebook feed from England saying "They can **** off we don't need them" "******* bunch of scroungers" and "We didn't need them in WW2, we don't need them now"

These people have already been removed from my "friends" list, even if they have illustrated somewhat why we want out of this decrepit union with a government hat has those exact attitudes dressed up in pretty words. While I have no issues with someone disagreeing if Independence is a good idea or not, name calling a whole nation for wanting a voice in their own affairs is just not on.

With that all said, lets crack on. Three years after the no vote in 2014 and shipbuilding contacts in scotland have gone, pensions are screwed, leaving the EU, renewing trident, cuts in real term funds, Theresa May, English votes for English laws, no federalism, horrendous welfare 'reform', attempts by the UK to push fracking in Scotland, a special relationship with Donald Trump, attempts to block protection for EU citizens, wanting out of the human rights act, cuts to renewable funding, cuts to BBC Alba, the official UK parliament opposition just abstaining to everything rather than voting against, the mental whisky tax that just happened! that's just off the top of my head.

I realize this is going to be a slightly touchy topic, but lets not be dicks to each other shall we?

Kaladon · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:24

Oh and as a first point.... Just what? :confused:

Macro · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:31

Nationalists in "we're going to keep asking you this question until you get the answer right you idiots" shocker... :rolleyes:

Mynight · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:35

I predict this thread will be moved to speakers corner.

Clearly I've been living under a rock I didn't realise it was that time again.

yer_averagejoe · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:35

Macro said:
Nationalists in "we're going to keep asking you this question until you get the answer right you idiots" shocker...

Good start :rolleyes:

I haven't had much chance to form an opinion yet, but given the change in political landscape and our chance to see how the government gave us the finger the day after the first vote I think there's grounds for another.

I'm immediately worried that a sense of apathy will lead to a low turnout and skew the result from whatever the right result would be, but welcome to politics.

Kaladon · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:38

I don't think Nationalism in of itself is wrong and I especially don't subscribe to the Mayor of London's opinion that somehow automatically makes me a racist. Also come on, a large amount of the no campaign was by promices that have all turned out to be lies. You don't think we have the right to ask again "why the hell do we want to stay in this?"

Kaladon · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:41

Mynight said:
I predict this thread will be moved to speakers corner.

Clearly I've been living under a rock I didn't realise it was that time again.

Oh I didn't realize, I saw General discussion and went "Ah that will do!"

My bad mods if that's the case.

yer_averagejoe said:
Good start

I didn't wanna point it out, but aye

yer_averagejoe said:
I'm immediately worried that a sense of apathy will lead to a low turnout and skew the result from whatever the right result would be, but welcome to politics.

Yeah me too, however one way or another indyref2014 did get an unprecedented amount of folk out to vote. If we can do that again then yes or no something good has happened with that level of engagement!

jsmoke · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:41

The SNP are poor mans Nazis, they were beat fair and square. As Trump said, they are irrelevant. They bring nothing to the table but bitterness and will destroy themselves under their own self pity if given the chance.

Malevolence · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:42

Without the billions of pounds that Westminster pumps into it, Scotland will never be able to survive as a sovereign nation. Just how will they recoup the lost monies?

cyber69 · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:43

If the people of Scotland vote no again then Sturgeon should resign immediately never to be heard of again.

StriderX · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:43

By not using Government figures that skew all the metrics involved?

I believe its called CAPS or something.

adolf hamster · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:51

So the scots can referendum as much as they like but brexit is brexit?

Good going democracy!

gary996 · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:53

ahhh weeee Jimmy crankie at it again. Why cant she crawl back under the rock where she came from

Whitewater · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:53

I agree that there has been a fundamental change that could justify a second referendum, however I'm not sure it'll ensure an independent Scotland's place in Europe in a post-Brexit world. Independence may lead to a very lonely Scotland that's neither part of Europe nor part of the UK.

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 19:58

Bloody hell, knew life expectancy was lower in Scotland but not that much lower.

"once in a generation"

2 years is a damn short time for a generation...

Roar87 · 13 Mar 2017 at 20:00

Scots were fantastic in WW2, happy for them to leave if they want, happy if they want to stay. I just don't see how being governed by the EU is better than the situation they have right now.

scorza · 13 Mar 2017 at 20:01

Macro said:
Nationalists in "we're going to keep asking you this question until you get the answer right you idiots" shocker...

They learned that from the federalists in the EU...

Destination · 13 Mar 2017 at 20:02

I truly think this should be done, swiftly, have the vote, his summer, be done with it.
Take it or leave it, stick with breixt or go your own path.
Stop talking about it, jus have the vote, be done, and put up or shut up for anyone who wants to leave.

Should leave the EU brexit negotiations hilarious if the vote is yes to leave.

Macro · 13 Mar 2017 at 20:03

To be fair to Sturgeon and the Nationalists they've never hidden the fact they will keep demanding independence and another ref at the slightest opportunity, it sort of goes with the job title...

They know they need to keep at this now, Labour imploding has left no other viable political party likely to have a strong majority in the Scottish Parliament so for the time being they can keep coming back to this over and over and disregard any No vote. Although a material change Scottish voters quite clearly knew Brexit was a possibility in the last Ref, took that into account and still chose to remain in the Union.

Vote no again and it will something else in 5 years time as the SNP know they can get the vote through the Scottish Parliament to demand a ref every time no matter what the population vote for until voter apathy gives them the result they are looking for.

Kaladon · 13 Mar 2017 at 20:17

Shamelessly nicked this from a mate, but its a fair point from any perspective