Scrappage Scam Extended

Soldato
Joined
22 May 2003
Posts
10,855
Location
Wigan
Parking sensors on a 500?!

Rear window is terrible and the boot slopes down so the car doesn't just finish at the window.

Last thing I want her to do is to back it into the ramp/step to the front door (built for disabled access when they built all the houses).

The £250 the parking sensors cost are a saving really as the first time you bump it accidentally its going to cost you £250 to have sprayed/corrected.

Plus you have them all the time then and they are helpful, especially for a girl, and she plans to keep the car for 5+ years. They are a bit conservative on gaps, but given the choice to have them or not have them I would pick them.

Being a man and white van driver I just touch park while going sideways following a precise handbrake turn into my space ;)
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
33,939
Location
Warwickshire
Robbie G - srsly only numberplate number snobs would rather be given an 09 Golf at an airport than Fox's minter 530i Sport. Non-car people would think it could be new.

I'm sure it looks lovely from the outside, but I'm talking about the parts of the car that actually matter and I'd still be slightly concerned about it breaking down.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,534
Absolute rubbish. Sure, there are a tiny minority of clean, tidy, reliable 1-2 owner cars being scrapped; not because their owners are "forced" to scrap them but because by selling these allegedly priceless little gems, they can't get an equivalent deal.

No there are large amounts of decent cars as well. This is because your typical scrappage customer is not your typical wideboy car abusing moron - many of the cars are not shonky bangers because the sort of person who has the money to take part in the scheme is not the sort of person running a banger on a set of Linglongs anyway, they just happen to have older cars.

I won't shed a tear when a smokey heap of crap is removed from the road.

But seriously, explain the rationale behind legally requiring a fully working, good condition and serviceable Fiesta 1.25 to be cubed, when on Autotrader there are numerous less decent examples for sale for £995 for your kids first car?
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,534
Ever noticed the vast array of fridges, freezers, furniture, TVs, audio systems, CRTs, computers, printers, etc. that are due to be "destroyed"?

Completely different. If I wanted to, there is no legal reason why I couldn't re-use a CRT rather than have it destroyed. With scrappage, you cannot legally re-use the car.
 
Associate
Joined
7 Jan 2005
Posts
1,805
Location
London
I'm sure it looks lovely from the outside, but I'm talking about the parts of the car that actually matter and I'd still be slightly concerned about it breaking down.

Most cars that are 4 years old do not break down on a regular basis... many of them don't even break down once in a year.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,534
So most £1k car buyers wouldn't have noticed a blowing exhaust, rattling tappets, and smoke from the valve stem seals? Maybe £1k means less to you than most people.

Sounds like it was indeed a nail. Odd really, I thought VW's were pretty solid? Yet you rewarded the fact your Polo was falling to bits by.. buying from them again. I hope your Golf proves to have more longevity - N reg is hardly old, is it?

But I got £4.5k off my car? Please, explain to me how I could have gotten £4.5k off by selling the Polo privately then negotiating with a dealer. You think VW are offering £4k discounts on new Golf 6s?

I don't fully understand your deal - under Scrappage, the government contributes £1000. Thats it. The rest is from VW and the retailer. They are not a charity and will not sell you a Golf at a loss from the goodness of their hearts. This means that this remaining £3.5k has come from their margin - its profit they've sacrificed to make the deal, some profit must remain in it.

This means that yes, you MUST be able to get discounts on a Mk6 Golf - its not being sold at virtually cost price when its sold at list, is it? And if they are selling so well there is no need to offer discounts why did they 'Do a Citroen' and offer you shedloads more than scrappage off list?

For some consumers sure - scrappage makes sense. And if it makes sense you are daft not to do it. If I wanted a brand new RX8 I'd be an idiot not to do scrappage if I had a qualifying car for example. But overall, its a deeply flawed scheme. And the biggest flaw is the forced destruction of perfectly roadworthy cars at the taxpayers expense.
 
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
50,384
Location
Plymouth
The scheme is not designed to help car buyers as such though, it's designed to help the UK car industry (which does not just include manufacture but also dealers and surrounding suppliers) in a competition effective manner (that is, not just propping up the bad companies).

With regards to the older cars, they aren't as safe or as efficient as current ones. You could argue that they are safe and efficient enough, and that the overall enviromental effect is still in favour of the old car, and you'd probably be right, but that is somewhat missing the point.

There is, for many (perhaps most) people, a certain value in owning a brand new car, it isn't rational or sensible, but people as a collective aren't rational, logical creatures, so that is largely irrelevant. Giving people more cash than their car is actually worth to change to something new is a big motivator, and again, this scheme was not designed to benefit the consumer, but to encourage them. The argument that you could get the same discount by haggling is probably also true, but many people suck at haggling, whereas the scrappage deal is an upfront haggle, and effortless, which in turn helps people buy into it. Sacrificing a few older cars with limited value to do this is not a bad idea, the scrappage scheme is certainly one of the better support models the government could have come up with to protect the large numbers of people employed in the motor industry at all levels.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
159,534
If people would rather own a new Hyundai i10 than a Fiesta 1.25 then that is their choice. But why should the Fiesta be destroyed, at the expense of the taxpayer? Why can it not make sensible and economical transport for somebody on a low income? Or a teenagers first car? Why is a perfectly serviceable car destroyed, taking away with it potential work for the automotive aftermarket?
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
7,169
Location
Ipswich
My car is eligible for the scrappage scheme but there's not a chance of me scrapping it, a new car actually does very little better than my 1995 Golf, the only tangible benefit I can see is air conditioning and being better off in a crash! Neither of which are much use for 90% of the time.

geoffrey.JPG


People don't need new cars and with the massive amounts of consumer debt now is not the time to encourage people into big ticket purchases carrying even more debt.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Nov 2004
Posts
8,182
Location
Couvains, France
I want to buy a new car, I buy an old shed for £50, and the Govt give me £1k of taxpayers money towards my car... How is this any better than propping up the banks?

Every tax payer who does not benefit from this is paying for it, are you happy to be funding someone elses car?

My view? Cars are overpriced the manufacturers could have taken a bigger hit, and those that don't, don't survive.

I don't want to prop "motor industry" up when I have been made redundant this year and lost a good chunk of my money I now need to live on in taxes. Ok so I am not destitute, and have started my own business, but the mismanagement of this countries finances by this govt is frankly, appalling. We are at present mortgaging our future, and its another toxic debt worse than the securities the banks invested in!
 
Capodecina
Soldato
Joined
30 Jul 2006
Posts
12,129
[TW]Fox;14985800 said:
If I wanted to, there is no legal reason why I couldn't re-use a CRT rather than have it destroyed. With scrappage, you cannot legally re-use the car.
There is no legal reason why anyone shouldn't continue to use a car that is ten or more years old; there is absolutely nothing to stop them selling such a car.

Nobody is FORCED to scrap a ten year old car, the Government is just providing an incentive to people to replace it, in order to support the motor industry.

I really do find it incredibly hard to believe that many people are sacrificing perfectly good, reliable, safe cars simply in order to trade them in for new ones, most people simply aren't like that - I am quite sure that there are a few eccentric exceptions to this rule ;)

I suspect that almost every car owner will make a judgement based on what offers them the best value for money although I do accept that many people seem to resort to strange value judgements in relation to car ownership; why there are even stranger people who will pay thousands for a timepiece to be worn on the wrist :eek:

If someone can sell their existing unreliable, unsafe, expensive to maintain car and get a decent discount on a new one at a good price, they will do. If their existing 10 year old car car is safe, reliable and economical and they expect that happy state of affairs to continue, they really aren't that likely to be that interested in selling it and buying a newer 2nd hand car, hoping that it will be as reliable as their much loved existing transport.
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
33,939
Location
Warwickshire
My car is eligible for the scrappage scheme but there's not a chance of me scrapping it, a new car actually does very little better than my 1995 Golf, the only tangible benefit I can see is air conditioning and being better off in a crash! Neither of which are much use for 90% of the time.

http://www.muncher.org.uk/geoffrey.JPG

People don't need new cars and with the massive amounts of consumer debt now is not the time to encourage people into big ticket purchases carrying even more debt.

You're happy to drive round in that, fine. Thousands wouldn't turn up to work or the golf club in something like that if they could help it, and I'm one of them.

Nobody NEEDS anything, apart from food water and shelter, so using requirement as a basis for rubbishing the scheme, is redundant really.
 
Capodecina
Soldato
Joined
30 Jul 2006
Posts
12,129
My car is eligible for the scrappage scheme but there's not a chance of me scrapping it, a new car actually does very little better than my 1995 Golf, the only tangible benefit I can see is air conditioning and being better off in a crash! Neither of which are much use for 90% of the time.
...
In the case of a crash, that 10% of the time may be the last chance you get to make a decision :(
 
Permabanned
Joined
29 Aug 2003
Posts
31,330
I agree with Fox, its sad to see so many cars out there that could be of good use to someone on a budget get squashed because it qualifies for scrappage.

It is a flawed scheme imo.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
50,384
Location
Plymouth
[TW]Fox;14985962 said:
If people would rather own a new Hyundai i10 than a Fiesta 1.25 then that is their choice. But why should the Fiesta be destroyed, at the expense of the taxpayer? Why can it not make sensible and economical transport for somebody on a low income? Or a teenagers first car? Why is a perfectly serviceable car destroyed, taking away with it potential work for the automotive aftermarket?

Because the market effect of doing anything else would be horrific. Main dealers do not want to trade in the kind of cars that are traded in under scrappage, which means that either they would send them all to auction, or the government would (because the government doesn't want to be a used car dealer either, and the economics of doing so make far less sense than the economics of scrapping the car). This results in the market being flooded with low end cars that without the scheme would not be available, dramatically forcing down the price of all the cars in that section of the market, including those owned by people who aren't eligible for the scheme (as opposed to the current option which actually increases the value of those cars).

And of course, as the value of the cars falls, the economics of scrapping them vs selling them makes more and more sense.
 
Soldato
Joined
24 Apr 2007
Posts
7,562
Location
Southport
I rang a scrapyard today, and they have a mint 620SLDi in with only 55k on the clock, on a T plate. :(

That car would have certainly run to over 200k when looked after, probably a lot more. The record at the moment is a 620SDi on 800,000 kilometers in some foreign country.
 
Permabanned
Joined
29 Aug 2003
Posts
31,330
I scrapped a car the other day, and I mean just scrapped it straight. (£80 cash for the metal in the audi)

Guy told me that they have had some real beutiful cars being stuck in, at least bodywork wise. He uttered something about it being a shame, I concurred.
 
Caporegime
Joined
19 Apr 2008
Posts
26,247
Location
Essex
15zqu5u.jpg


Poor Fiesta. Someone tried to save it but the owner was adamant to scrap it. By all means take smoke old rusty cars off of the road but don't destroy classics.

Breaks my heart to see images like that. A car that has been cared for, looked after and loved over two decades just cut in half.
 
Back
Top Bottom