secret comes out...

[Arcade Fire]

Expalin?

What do you expect me to be like when you post something which I find offensive?

I think you need to realise that there's a good case for what geeza suggested. Religion has done a lot of good, but it's certainly brought about a lot of evil as well.

 

[jezsoup]

I think you need to realise that there's a good case for what geeza suggested. Religion has done a lot of good, but it's certainly brought about a lot of evil as well.

Yeah I never disputed that a lot of wars have broken out and people have used religion as their grounds for it. Im not arguing that.

If you actually look into it what has caused many wars it is people twisting religion and using it as their excuse/reason for fighting. I maintain that if there was no religion people will still fight and try find another excuse for it. What it all boils down to is personal greed not religion really, thats just their smoke screen/cover.

My beef was with him thinking it was a good idea to post a link to something he knew people would find offensive (re his comment "remove if not allowed here"), have your own views and opinions by all means but dont go throwing them a round to cause offense.

 

[geeza]

I think you need to realise that there's a good case for what geeza suggested. Religion has done a lot of good, but it's certainly brought about a lot of evil as well.

i think he was referring to the tshirt about the virgin mary. Sorry if it offended you but i bet theres more that wouldnt find it offensive

 

[Arcade Fire]

Ah, I didn't see the t-shirt hell link. I have to admit that I find some of their stuff pretty damn funny, though.

 

[jezsoup]

i think he was referring to the tshirt about the virgin mary. Sorry if it offended you but i bet theres more that wouldnt find it offensive

So that makes it ok? See the this thread was it ok for the men to hurl abuse at the jewish kids, I mean surely most people there wouldnt have cared/ it didnt bother them?

Its called being considerate.

 

[deano]

some what late to the disscusion but at least it's not got into the normal "us, them" "right / wrong" religious thread.

Has been most intersting reading and thought provoking ( excluding the Tshirt post)

I would generally agree with Jezsoup with most of his comments

However as christians ( people who believe in the bible and creation who choose to call a greater power God, who wants to have a relationship with them and meet with like minded people (believers) and also has left a guide book = the bible - just trying to turn the word / mind set of what a Christian is into normal english) we are all at different stages of our understanding/interpretation of the bible, some things we beleive more than others. Inspite of some "christians" voicing the oppion that they are higher than anyone else, we all came into the world the same and will all go out the same. What we do and beleive in the middle makes the difference. After all Jesus was just a man - who lived by the scriptures - empowered by God.

Relgion as the world has defined it is following a set of rules - relgion as the Bible defines it is caring for the widows and the orphans.

Right back on topic, basically i would say the deeply religious girlfriend is living in denial - we all do this a times including myself - she has made a choice inspite it being opposed to what i believe the bible says, how ever the first command ment is
Luke 10:27-37 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)

27He said, "That you love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and muscle and intelligence--and that you love your neighbor as well as you do yourself."

28"Good answer!" said Jesus. "Do it and you'll live."

So enjoy your time together learn to live and grow, encourage one another and don't take the **** to much

Sex before Marriage My thoughts:-

Having had sex once before marriage and enjoy the moment very much later on regreted doing it ( was a christian at the time ) and we split up a number of weeks later.

Getting to marriage night with a virigin was something unique and very special for us and also frustrating in some ways due to lack of experiance, however i wouldn't change it for anything as we have learnt and grown together when it comes to having sex - as they saying goes "there are no prizes for coming second - but the best prize is coming joint first" thats something we can enjoy more i think because we have learn't together. In todays society i think the act of sex has become "cheap" and has lost some of its value. Thats where the world is at, it's for christians to meet those who are at that place and just show an accepting love with out throwing the book at them to much.

Hope all that's come across ok and not offended anyone!

Cheers
Deano

 

[geeza]

So that makes it ok? See the this thread was it ok for the men to hurl abuse at the jewish kids, I mean surely most people there wouldnt have cared/ it didnt bother them?

Its called being considerate.

i am considerate, and im not racist. I think its ok to joke about religion and race so long as you dont go around throwing rocks at jews/beating up people of different colour (which i dont)

 

[paul@]

In my personal thought I believe the boy should step away from the family otherwise this will cause really big problems in the future if the future groom is not prepared to convert.

My 2p worth.

 

[FirebarUK]

After all Jesus was just a man

A very special man

 

[jezsoup]

i am considerate, and im not racist. I think its ok to joke about religion and race so long as you dont go around throwing rocks at jews/beating up people of different colour (which i dont)

Apologise if I came across a bit arsey and such about the t shirt issue and all. I can see why people find it amsuing and such but i find it far from so, I havea bit of a chip on my shoudler about things like that. I didnt mean to insinuate you were some kind of racist.

 

[Vanilla]

Apologise if I came across a bit arsey and such about the t shirt issue and all. I can see why people find it amsuing and such but i find it far from so, I havea bit of a chip on my shoudler about things like that. I didnt mean to insinuate you were some kind of racist.

Can I have an apology too?

 

[deano]

A very special man

thats what the empowered by God bit was for - lol

cheers
Deano

 

[jezsoup]

Can I have an apology too?

What for exactly?

 

[Vanilla]

What for exactly?

Dunno, wasn't even offended by anything but seeing as you were handing them out I thought i'd have a go.......

 

[jezsoup]

Dunno, wasn't even offended by anything but seeing as you were handing them out I thought i'd have a go.......

Lol fair enoguh

I just re reead some of my posts and figured they could have been read as me being a bit OTT or out of order in the way i expressed/explained myself.

 

[TommoUK]

If you actually look into it what has caused many wars it is people twisting religion and using it as their excuse/reason for fighting. I maintain that if there was no religion people will still fight and try find another excuse for it. What it all boils down to is personal greed not religion really, thats just their smoke screen/cover.

I have thought about this before and come to similar conclusions. I do not think that eradicating religious beliefs would prevent wars or violence. On the other hand, if we had no reason for such wars in the first place, I would not expect religion to be so prominent today, or be so strict/disciplined.

 

[squiffy]

My opinion on religions is this

1) They are created by people in power to control people, and to elevate themselves higher into power, to cause fear and persecute those that do not obey, or to froth up their followers to hate other nationalities/countries that are different. I know of several Christians and they are NOT tolerant of other religious people or atheists. They always judge other people, and see themelves superior to other people who are not Christians (ie Atheists, other religions)

2) It causes people to be all alike, and to go through life with a blinkered view with no self opinion or to question those in power, and to to trust those in power (paedo priests for example where the mother silences her abused sons/daughters in fears of what of priests hellfire spouting) If people really believe the Earth is 6000 years old it proves they have been brainwashed. I have no problem believing a healer named Jesus was born 2000 years and was a "nice guy" and crucified.

3) Are used to instill ignorance, and to also to persecute those who are thinking, or leaving the path, or dislike those rules.

4) Religion has caused more death than political wars, and is the cause of hatred between each religious groups moreso than territorial/nationality differences.

5) Any religion that doesn't have 100% followers that do not question it's Holy book isn't working. You only have to see a small minority of any extremist (Christian or Muslim) In a group of Muslims burning a US/UK/Danish/Martian flag do you see any stop and think "hmmm this is going a bit to far?"

There is nothing wrong with follow moral and legal laws, it is pretty obvious if I went around killing people it would be wrong. However according to various religions sexual gratification of certain types is wrong. I'm sorry but any person in power who preaches this rubbish needs to be thrown into the street. Those that take literal translations of religious texts are morons with no free will. I have no problem believing in Jesus/Mohammed, but if I were religious I would pick and choose the MORAL things from each text to what I believe is right. If I fanced a bit of brown that is my own right, if I were gay I would ignore the Bible's views on such matters. Would you want that person to go through life miserable and to deny his sexuality? Just so when you go to heaven God knows you lid a sin free (albeit miserable and sexually lonely life)

Why do you think that is? Is it perhaps Gays, Lesbians, anal, oral, and sex without conctraception stops pregnancies? Religious groups want more followers to increase their numbers, and not for those with sexual preferences without any chance of offspring...so they would rather you have a miserable life over "sin"

 

[Arcade Fire]

A very special man

Jesus was autistic?!

 

[TommoUK]

My opinion on religions is this

1) They are created by people in power to control people, and to elevate themselves higher into power, to cause fear and persecute those that do not obey, or to froth up their followers to hate other nationalities/countries that are different. I know of several Christians and they are NOT tolerant of other religious people or atheists. They always judge other people, and see themelves superior to other people who are not Christians (ie Atheists, other religions)

I do not think all religions, even most, were created in order to control people. More that they were created as an attempt to understand the world, but abused as a control tool. As for tolerance, that comes down to personal experience. Just as there are kind old people and rude people is not to say
they are all one or the other. I have seen/heard many intolerant religious people that look down on non-believers very pretentiously. However, on the same note some religious people are tolerant - to say otherwise is generalising.

2) It causes people to be all alike, and to go through life with a blinkered view with no self opinion or to question those in power, and to to trust those in power (paedo priests for example where the mother silences her abused sons/daughters in fears of what of priests hellfire spouting) If people really believe the Earth is 6000 years old it proves they have been brainwashed. I have no problem believing a healer named Jesus was born 2000 years and was a "nice guy" and crucified.

It's unjust to tar all religions with this brush. Although it can be applied to monotheistic religions to a degree, although we're talking extreme pious nutcases here, how you could say that a polytheistic religion causes its followers to be alike?

3) Are used to instill ignorance, and to also to persecute those who are thinking, or leaving the path, or dislike those rules.

Another case of how the ideas have been manipulated to control people.

4) Religion has caused more death than political wars, and is the cause of hatred between each religious groups moreso than territorial/nationality differences.

This argument is moot. Religious wars wouldn't occur in most cases if there wasn't some political grounding.

5) Any religion that doesn't have 100% followers that do not question it's Holy book isn't working. You only have to see a small minority of any extremist (Christian or Muslim) In a group of Muslims burning a US/UK/Danish/Martian flag do you see any stop and think "hmmm this is going a bit to far?"

There is nothing wrong with follow moral and legal laws, it is pretty obvious if I went around killing people it would be wrong. However according to various religions sexual gratification of certain types is wrong. I'm sorry but any person in power who preaches this rubbish needs to be thrown into the street. Those that take literal translations of religious texts are morons with no free will. I have no problem believing in Jesus/Mohammed, but if I were religious I would pick and choose the MORAL things from each text to what I believe is right. If I fanced a bit of brown that is my own right, if I were gay I would ignore the Bible's views on such matters. Would you want that person to go through life miserable and to deny his sexuality? Just so when you go to heaven God knows you lid a sin free (albeit miserable and sexually lonely life)

Why do you think that is? Is it perhaps Gays, Lesbians, anal, oral, and sex without conctraception stops pregnancies? Religious groups want more followers to increase their numbers, and not for those with sexual preferences without any chance of offspring...so they would rather you have a miserable life over "sin"

You went off on a bit of a tangent here, and it looks like you're more or less just talking about catholicism. To that degree, the banning of contraceptives by the church, if removed would no doubt reduce the amount of AIDS in less developed countries.

Although religion is not quintessentially bad or 'evil', it is in my opinion a bit of an outdated facet of society, that really isn't needed now. It does seem to be fading out, slowly. Although many people claim to be religious, this only goes to the point of trying to keep the heaven gates open for them I think this is for the best. Religion has served it's purpose in time, but we do not need it now. A society in which we are constantly trying to learn about the universe will not benefit from an ancient text that states "God did it".

I don't really think we need religion - long ago it helped people to uphold moral values, but do you not think we are civilised enough now as a culture to know when something is appropriate or not? I can't speak for everyone, but I do not need a set of commandments to tell me not to steal or cheat.

Likewise, parts of the religion do not really fit a modern lifestyle, in which we live a longer life, are likely to have relationships where both man and wife work full-time. Monogamy is nice for people who are lucky to find one they love, but for many frictions occur and relationships are not as long lasting as we'd hope. And people have more freedoms. We aren't expected to settle down in our 20s, have children and work for the next few decades. We live in a time where to a large degree, we have the ability to do almost anything we want - we should not hold ourselves back with archaic beliefs.

In the end, it boils down to an argument of belief, which is why religious debates often seem to go in a roundabout. Nobody is likely to change their heavily ingrained views on life, so people just state their own values. I think this world is only what we make of it; not a mission to appease some omnipotent force, but a chance to live a happy life we can share with others.

Sorry to offend any with fragile beliefs; but just as you are entitled to express yours I am mine.

 

[Psyk]

I wouldn't want to worship a god that punishes you for doing things that harm no one. If it turned out God was real and he really did hate homosexuals/sex outside of marriage/masturbation/gambling/etc. I wouldn't want anything to do with him and I certainly wouldn't spend my life trying to please him. Not that many christians believe god is that harsh but I'm sure some do.