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slowly degrading adsl max??

Discussion in 'Networks & Internet Connectivity' started by D3fine, 20 May 2006.

  1. D3fine

    Associate

    Joined: 12 Apr 2006

    Posts: 71

    so, around the 5th day of adsl max, my internet connection seemed to had settled at 4480kbps sync speed, giving me a 4mb connection, and download speed, had 0 errors on the line etc, 2 days later that then went down to around 4100kbps, giving me 3.5mbps, it has kept going down, and down, untill today, when i woke up to see it syncing at 3008kbps!! wtf is going on, i have 0 errors on the line attenuation of 62.5. which was 59.5 before i upgraded to adsl, and around 5 days into adsl max it was still that, and i have a SNR margin of 16.5!!! with 0 errors on the line, wtf is going on, is there anything i can do to get my speed back up again to what i was once enjoying? could my isp(aol) have done this because acording to bt my phone line can only support 2.5mbps which is the equivilent i am getting now becuase of my sync speed, not very happy to say the least!

    edit. this majar speed decrease has happend well after the 10 day mark, around the 10 day mark i was getting 3.5mbps, i am now well over 1month mark ;s
     
  2. csmager

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,770

    Location: London

    You've had your SNR margin increased. Daily, by the sounds of it. Usual causes for this are frequent resyncs causing the DLM to believe your line is unstable at current settings, so it increases the SNR to achieve more stability.
     
  3. D3fine

    Associate

    Joined: 12 Apr 2006

    Posts: 71

    heres i convo i had with the ever helpfull aol live help.

    17:57:13 AOL UK Support Welcome to AOL Live Help. How might I be of service to you?
    17:58:37 You hi, i am on adsl max, after the 10 days i was syncing at a rate of 4448kbps, giving me a download speed of 4mbps, it has gotten slower however, and today it has gone down to 3040kbps....... giving me a download speed of 2.5 mbps???? wtf is going on some sort of cap imposed by aol?
    18:00:23 Sana E. Rabbi I can see why that is a valid concern, let me help you with that.
    18:00:57 You my SNR is a massive 16.5!! which would obviously suggest my connection is fine, and it can handle more then 3040kbps as the norm is 6 to have a stable connection!
    18:02:32 Sana E. Rabbi How long have you been experiencing this issue?
    18:02:56 You it started around 2 days after the 10 day "trial period"
    18:03:13 You which is like 2-3 weeks ago
    18:03:23 You but i have never had speed as slow as it is now today :(
    18:04:51 Sana E. Rabbi Please don't worry, I am sending you a very helpful link, however I am also sending you an email for further assistance, I request you to please try all the steps given in them and definitely your issue will get resolved.
    18:05:23 Sana E. Rabbi Most of the time, a slow broadband connection is due to background processes that also use the connection, such as spyware. AOL provides a free spyware protection utility that can check for and remove known spyware files at AOL Keyword Spyware.

    Save or print our 'Stay Connected' manual and keep it to hand in case of any connection problems
    http://www.aolsvc.co.uk/help/broadband/stayconnected.pdf

    18:05:43 You by the way i hope they are not thing slike please reinstall drivers restart machine etc
    18:05:56 You becuase i work in ict support, and work with computers for a living
    18:06:15 You so i know what i am doing and it is not a problem on my end its a problem on the bt side/aol
    18:06:57 Sana E. Rabbi Please try all the steps and if the problem persist please come back to live help, we are here to assist you always.
    18:07:02 Sana E. Rabbi For more information you can always visit AOL keyword "discover AOL".
    18:07:29 You i know they wont help me
    18:07:33 You just looking at them now
    18:07:40 You it isnt my computer
    18:07:49 You it is the phone line/bt side of it
    18:08:13 You nothing on any1's machine would cause them to sync at a slower speed for no apparent reason
    18:08:57 You to me it looks like the bt "bras" has imposed an incorrect setting on the line
    18:09:10 You making my line sync at a slower speed then it is capable of
    18:10:41 Sana E. Rabbi Please try all the steps and if the problem persist please come back to live help, we are here to assist you always.
    18:11:02 You i dont like wasting my own tim
    18:11:10 You doing things i know for a fact wont help
    18:11:14 Sana E. Rabbi And if you have tried all AOL recommended on steps on live help then i would advice you to please contact our technical support at 0870 320 2020
    18:11:35 You even with virus's and spyware it wuddnt change the sync speed of my modem
    18:11:46 You suggesting it is really really dumb
    18:14:24 You is there anyway for you to contact bt, and have them reset my line to the "10 day trial mode" thing again?

    after that i got no reply... i guess they really wanted me to try and restart my computer....... cant believe the cheek of it, they gave me a step by step guide on how to restart my machine......
     
  4. Phil99

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,900

    I wish mine would do that, it syncs higher everytime it disconnects due to low SNR :rolleyes:
     
  5. Phil99

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,900

    It wont be down to the BRAS as that's set according to the line sync, not the other way round.

    Sounds like the DLM as mentioned by csmager
     
  6. D3fine

    Associate

    Joined: 12 Apr 2006

    Posts: 71

    is there any chance they will reduce my snr? i am on a usb modem so every time i restart my machine the line will resync, which is about 10+ times a day.
     
  7. Phil99

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,900

    I don't think AOL themselves can do specific things like increase/decrease the target SNR, but you could try to get AOL to contact BT and tell them the line was fine at the default 6dB SNR.

    From the conversation you had with AOL before that could be easier said than done, however.

    Note that unfortunately you can't just phone up BT and ask them to do it, you have to go through AOL :(
     
  8. csmager

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,770

    Location: London

    Mine too! I happily roll along at 7dB SNR with 10 disconnections a day. If only it would increase!
    How often do you turn your computer off? I don't think the DLM can differentiate between a resync and you manually disconnecting your modem (by rebooting your PC, as you said you have a USB modem). The system's quite probably only doing exactly what it was programmed to do.

    Only way of getting it resolved is to contact AOL and get them to log a fault with BT... which is easier said than done. Might be an idea to invest in a router too.
     
  9. D3fine

    Associate

    Joined: 12 Apr 2006

    Posts: 71

    aol was soposed to send me a free router..... which has never turned up :o
     
  10. Usher

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Dec 2004

    Posts: 3,316

    Your attenuation is very high which is bad & will give you problems, Previously it had to be 43db or less just to get 2meg

    snr of 6db is not the default setting, quite the opposite as its the lowest BTconsider to be just about borderline stable & 10 or above is to be prefered .
    The higher the speed you attain then the more your snr will drop in unison & packet loss & errors will creep in degrading it even more
     
  11. Phil99

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,900

    Yes it is :confused:

    All MaxDSL lines start with a target SNR of 6dB which BT regard as the lowest for a stable connection. If you have any problems it turns on interleaving/increases the target SNR.

    A SNR of 6dB should be fine as long as it doesn't vary, problem is the SNR varies during the day on many lines meaning what may have been a stable speed in the morning will be unstable in the evening causing a drop of sync.
     
  12. Usher

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Dec 2004

    Posts: 3,316

    I've just said what you have -- that its the lowest BT consider stable, depends how you define ' default ' as this gives the impression that 6db is ideal which it certainly is not
     
  13. csmager

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,770

    Location: London

    Stability's a measure of how long the line remains synced, not a measure of the SNR margin. Even 3dB could be perfectly stable on some lines, but it's hardly a sensible place to start. 6dB is the default setting, and that's what everyone's Max line is set to on Day 1.
     
  14. Phil99

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,900

    In other words, the value that's initially set and won't be changed unless it has to.

    6dB isn't "ideal" as an ideal SNR would be as high as is physically possible (infinite with absolutely no noise on the line), a 6dB SNR can produce a perfectly stable line as long as it doesn't fluctuate throughout the day.
     
  15. CurlyWhirly

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 24 May 2003

    Posts: 1,429

    Location: UK

    That is exactly what happens to me but, fortunately, it only happens once a day.

    A 6 dB SN/R margin gives me a nice stable connection and it is only when the margin falls to around 2.5 dB that I lose the connection.


    AFAIK there are 10 different settings that BT can apply:

    With interleaving: 3dB, 6dB, 9dB, 12dB and 15dB
    Without interleaving: 3dB, 6dB (default), 9dB, 12dB and 15dB
     
  16. csmager

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,770

    Location: London

    Hmm... mine was 6dB at the beginning - very unstable. It's now stuck on 7.5dB - a bit better.
     
  17. CurlyWhirly

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 24 May 2003

    Posts: 1,429

    Location: UK

    Yes but doesn't that SN/R drop?
    Mine does like it used to do before I was on Max DSL where it used to drop 5 dB from 29 dB to 24 dB but, obviously, I never used to lose the connection as I still had plenty of SN/R left.

    I have interleaving enabled on my line (at my request) and I think it is set at 6 dB but I would prefer it to be set at 9 dB to avoid the line dropping at peak time but I don't know if my ISP or BT can carry out this sort of request on my behalf :confused:

    I would rather lose half a Mb of speed and have a connection that doesn't drop :o
     
  18. csmager

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 5,770

    Location: London

    Same. Mine's unstable at 7.5dB - up to 10 resyncs a day. I've tried contacting F2S, they said they could contact BT and log a fault, so I asked them to. Their customer support has been uncontactable (all but) for about a month now. I'm going elsewhere asap.
     
  19. Corasik

    Soldato

    Joined: 5 Jan 2003

    Posts: 5,002

    Location: West Midlands

    I've had 0 resyncs (+1 reboot) since I had my max installed on Friday ;).

    Anyway, I dont think reboots and disconnections always count, I believe that the system is designed to detect changes, if your connected at 8128, disconnect, and then reconnect later at 8128 the system doesnt care.

    If you sync up at 8128, and then at 6xxx, then 8xxx, then 7xxx, then 4xxx then the system will be alerted, and start 'lowering' your MSR and BRAS. The system is smart enough to know that people with usb modems will disconnect every time they turn off or even reboot their PC's.

    As my router always syncs up at 8128, I suspect that I'll get a decent MSR and Bras :), but then again, with only 7db (attenuation) downstream, and 4.5db upstream thats hardly a surprise. I can see the telephone exchange if I look out of the window :cool:

    I think im still on the 6db initial noise margin, as I've only disconnected once, when I updated my routers firmware to update the firewall and nat code.
     
    Last edited: 21 May 2006
  20. norm

    Soldato

    Joined: 21 Jan 2003

    Posts: 5,093

    Had to laugh at your 'AOL Live' conversation.

    You there using expletives in the form of acronymns and the person at the other end replying all polite. :)