So, you want a new Hi-Fi?

[DRZ]

the biggest being that you actually hear the music how it was recorded.

Terribly, in a rapidly increasing number of cases

Live music is also stunning- on a well produced live track you can place where abouts a particular musician is on a stage.

Im sorry, what? No seriously...

NO live sets use stereo pairs to record individual components, unless you are talking about a classical concert being recorded using a sole pair of microphones, which is a totally crap way of doing things. Everything is mic'd up singly in mono and then mixed.

Now, for a stereo CD, where each instrument in the stereo mix is is entirely up to the engineer. If an engineer was recording a metallica concert they just run the tapes and record individual channels and mix it later unless they specifically wanted to mix it live, but it is much more likely to be a success postmixing it so they do it afterwards.

So you have each part on its own channel on the stereo mixbus each with a panpot and a fader. The dums are centered, bass to the left, guitar to the right and vocalist in the centre... That doesnt really change if it is a stereo studio mix, just that you have something that was engineered to sound good through brutal horn-loaded PA amps driven to clipping rather than sound good at home being fed to the mix on a live recording.

Unless its a stereo or 5.1 mix to accompany a video, its simply not worth the extra studio time to make them move about in the mix.

Stereo CD live mix offers nothing in terms of imaging over a studio recording.

 

[Noopz]

Edited to keep the thread on track!

 

[DRZ]

*snip*

Whoops, didnt mean to bite your head off! I am sick at the moment...

I didnt say the Nait 5i was poor, I just meant that in the grand scheme of things it isnt a patch on something a snob would own For reference, my uncle has a bi-amped monoblock Krell system. Thats what I mean by a snob

When I was talking about imaging (alternatively placement in the mix, which you seemed to seperate as two different things which they arent) I was comparing a stereo studio mix to a stereo live set mix in terms of how movement wasnt actually present unless artificially created. A singer carries around a microphone generally, a guitarist is plugged in or is mic'd up etc etc etc...

Recording quality "these days" in the mainstream is pap. Expensive monitors are only used in the top name studios but time there is expensive and I am convinced the engineers are deaf or deliberately mix them poorly. Listen to the opening track of "the bends" - what a monstrosity of a recording! St Anger is a similar travesty as are many others. Jazz is the last bastion of good quality because seemingly nobody can mic up an orchestra these days I just think you misunderstood me there.

People also dont spend out £1000 on something they dont know (or sounds rubbish because they arent used to it). I would NEVER recommend a £2000 system to someone coming from a JVC system because thats just not the right approach. Your ears need to be taught what good is and to appreciate the difference you need training. £500-700 is more than enough of a budget for most people.

I have stopped upgrading at the moment, my Musical Fidelity preamp upgrade has got my system just right at the moment. I just need to finish the mods I have planned to my CD player and build my own DAC and it will do me for a while yet

 

[fish99]

I don't find my RA02 too bright. It didn't match up well with the Wharfedale 9.1s I used to have, but with my current MA B2s and Marantz CDP it sounds very capable - not bright or tiring and more than enough bass.

I guess it depends on what sort of sound you're used to though. I mean it's way less bright than Grado headphones for instance, but it is a little brighter than my previous Marantz amp. It wouldn't sound clever paired with bright speakers though.

 

[fish99]

Actually I've changed my mind after doing some direct comparisons with my Marantz and Rotel amps. Oh well, you live and learn.

 

[MrWhippy]

I can understand the opinions on the Rotel amp. I auditioned the RA02 against the NAD when I was buying, and like I said to the man in the shop, the NAD sounds better, but I prefer the RA02.

Make of that what you will, but I'd suggest the Rotel amp is worth a listen, it may or may not be to your taste.

Have paired it with an Arcam CD player and a pair of B&W 602 S3's. Still well pleased with it and I've had it 3 years.

Was gutted that I forgot to take any of my own cds and then delighted that the store had most of the discs I would have taken anyway.

 

[Ste]

I'll second the Audiolab notions =)

Just started getting the upgrade bug...

Started with one 8000A driving Mission 753s (poor thing)
Then got a second 8000A cheap and bi-amp'd them - WOW - so impressed I just ordered an 8000P which should be great bi-amped with an A.

After that it'll probably be a Q or C with an eventual aim of 2x 8000P and the preamp to go with them

 

[squiffy]

I'll second the Audiolab notions =)

Just started getting the upgrade bug...

Started with one 8000A driving Mission 753s (poor thing)
Then got a second 8000A cheap and bi-amp'd them - WOW - so impressed I just ordered an 8000P which should be great bi-amped with an A.

After that it'll probably be a Q or C with an eventual aim of 2x 8000P and the preamp to go with them

Upgrade your A to the 8000S
or
Get 8000Q with a couple of SX's or PX's. The 8000A and 8000C weren't that brilliant.

S/Q/SX/PX/DAC20/60P owner.

 

[Ste]

They're cheap though =)

Picked up the 2nd 8000A for £120 and the 8000P for £210. An 8000C could be found for about 120-150 but a Q will be >250!

Likewise, have you seen the prices the PX go for?! Last ones I've seen were £450, crazy! You can have a tag100p for that, though they're essentially the same thing. Likewise, if you can get past the made in china snobbery, the new 8000P is, on paper, better than the old one (8000px = tag100p = silver 8000p, design wise, but there is some debate about the quality of the components in the new ones) for a fraction of the price =)

All you need is a can of black paint

 

[squiffy]

There's a reason why the A & C is so cheap and why the PX's hold there value. A few people prefer the Audiolab's over the Tag versions. And quite a few don't think much of the new Audiolabs either. basically the brand is doomed.

 

[Ste]

Yeah, supply and demand

The S is indeed a better amp than the A, but not worth double the money, imo.

The Q is, however, worth more than the C, it's a much better pre-amp. Just funds don't allow

A good E/F serial 8000P will still fetch ~300, and the PX's at 400-450 are insane I'd love to see a comparison between the 8000P, PX and new P (throw the tag in while your there too)

 

[squiffy]

Well I lent someone who has a 8000A for a week, with my 8000S and he sold the A straight away for the S. Got £150 for the A, and bought a S for £270, so must have been worth it.

 

[Ste]

wow

Looking forward to the 8000P getting here though, planning to have it do the LF with the power section of the A doing HF... should be a nice boost even if not quite upto a 700quid+ Q/PX combo =)

 

[Spyhop]

><{{{*>

 

[Beansprout]

Per my thread I have a demo at Sevenoaks tomorrow for an Onkyo 605, KEF 2005/3005 and MA RS6s (they haven't got the new B&W 600s yet) - should be fun

 

[Iceman]

So the £120 Yamaha RX-V361 av receiver is no good then??

 

[oli collett]

Just thought i'd add a link to my thread here:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17885085

For discussions relating to blind testing and whether there is perceivable differences in certain audio equipment. All opinions are welcome!

 

[Capt-Cuckoo]

I must say that the products detailed in the original post are mainly cheap rubbish.

Yes, that includes Cambridge Audio and Arcam!

Dont forget that markups are commonly 400% to 1000% in some cases.

Proper British Hifi manufacturers are Creek and Rega.

I wouldnt have a KEF or Gale pair of speakers even if held at gunpoint!

 

[Capt-Cuckoo]

I'm in agreement on the cables, tbh my Supra rondo looks exactly like mains wire, I have my suspicions thats exactly what it is, with Supra cables written on the sheath.
I have had various cables in my system over the years and hanf on heart I can honestly say none of them have made any difference at all. When I switched from single to bi-wire on my old biwirable speakers I thought it sounded different, but bh its just what I told myself because I had just spent out on new cable.

Nowadays I run the cheapest good quality cables I can get, if only for better RF shielding.

Agreed.

No ones ever found serious evidence that the fancy cabling does anything.

Some of the best for large currents is the single core high ampage mains cable.

The really thick grey stuff for cookers etc. Im sure Ive seen it in twin core too.

 

[james.miller]

Agreed.

No ones ever found serious evidence that the fancy cabling does anything.

Some of the best for large currents is the single core high ampage mains cable.

The really thick grey stuff for cookers etc. Im sure Ive seen it in twin core too.

whats the point if it makes no difference? i have 10mm mains cable on my cooker, there's absolutely no point in using cable that can handle >10kw @ 240v on a pair of speakers.