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Spark, no oxygen?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by laiman, 31 May 2006.

  1. PeterNem

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 15 Feb 2003

    Posts: 8,322

    Location: NJ/NY, USA

    Also remember other gasses than oxygen support combustion. For instance, Chlorine (iirc).
     
  2. Feek

    Commissario

    Joined: 16 Oct 2002

    Posts: 231,909

    Location: In the radio shack

    I'm here. Bullets aren't air tight.

    K.
     
  3. Feek

    Commissario

    Joined: 16 Oct 2002

    Posts: 231,909

    Location: In the radio shack

    I was about to edit the picture and say the same thing!

    K.
     
  4. Radiation

    Mobster

    Joined: 12 Oct 2003

    Posts: 4,030

    Thats what i thought too?
     
  5. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: 12 Mar 2004

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    Location: England

    No, there is no oxygen, the propellent wouldnt be able to ignite.
     
  6. locutus12

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 11 Mar 2004

    Posts: 5,897


    took the words right out of my mouth.
     
  7. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: 12 Mar 2004

    Posts: 29,024

    Location: England


    I think you mean a solid state, all molecules are solid, you'd need tons of pressure to keep oxygen solid I seriously doubt any cartridge could contain that pressure, it would have to be airtight otherwise the pressure escaping would cause the cartridge to explode if the solid oxygen pellet instantly expanding didnt. Though of course when the bullet leaves the cartridge the gun would explode anyway from the pressure release.
     
    Last edited: 1 Jun 2006
  8. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: 7 Aug 2003

    Posts: 41,738

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    I think the point he's making is that the oxygen required is actually locked up chemically in the solid propellant. Not sure about the particular propellant used in a gun round, but certainly a lot of explosives if I remember correctly have the oxygen they need for combustion held chemically in the explosive themselves.

    Jokester
     
  9. Mic

    Mobster

    Joined: 4 Aug 2005

    Posts: 3,869

    Location: Ireland

    That show rocked. Wonder what ever happaned to Bud though.
     
  10. Mickey_D

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Dec 2003

    Posts: 6,204

    Location: Gone......

    As posted before, a spark does not equal a fire.

    And you can most definately have an electrical spark without oxygen. Not a whole lot of oxygen around when you're underwater welding. Not a whole lot of oxygen present in an HID light. Or a sodium lamp.

    Now, if you're talking about fire, then the answer is : in most cases, no. But in a Class D fire, yes.


    Oh, and as for firing a pistol in space, it would depend on the quality of the cartridge and whether it was airtight or not.

    And the bit about the gun exploding due to the pressures? Not really. Atmospheric pressure is only 15psi. So the barrel of a gun fired in space would only be subjected to 15psi more pressure, which when you consider the pressures it already operates under, that's a miniscule amount. So the gun itself would not be affected by being fired in space.

    One thing to really consider is that a gun fired in space does NOT have an effective range. The bullet would continue travelling at muzzle velocity until it hit something. (or was dragged off trajectory by gravitational pull of a planet it passed) ;)
     
  11. Docaroo

    Mobster

    Joined: 27 Jun 2005

    Posts: 2,863

    Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

    Let's nail this on the head... a SPARK as I assume you are defining it is not FIRE.

    In order to burn something, you indeed need oxygen - as the chemical reaction of Hydrocarbon + O -> C, CO2, H2O, etc,etc

    However, a spark in itself is not fire - it is as stated either a really hot partical (most commonly small particles of molten hot metal flying off something you are attacking with power tools) but sparks can also be fromed by electric currents. (IE when you touch together 2 crocodile clips hooked up to your car battery for example)...

    I think that's the best way to explain it...
     
  12. Energize

    Caporegime

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    Location: England

    It was assuming there was solid oxygen in there ;)
     
  13. Aod

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 7 Oct 2004

    Posts: 8,675

    Location: London

    the mixture of common cordite (the "gunpowder") contains saltpetre which contains atomic oxygen in its molecule. the shock from the dtonation of the primer causes a reaction making the saltpetre to release its oxygen wherupon the cordite will detonate.

    yes, guns can fire in space.
     
  14. William

    Capodecina

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    Location: Derby

    I am suprised that they have not tested it yet, with no gravity a gun that fired would be pretty cool to say the least. :D
     
  15. Aod

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 7 Oct 2004

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    Location: London

    i'm now confused. how does gravity effect the function of a firearm?
     
  16. William

    Capodecina

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    Location: Derby

    It doesn't. It effects the bullet though. :)
     
  17. aardvark

    Sgarrista

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    Location: leeds

    the problem is the word 'spark'
    its doesn't really have a proper scientific definition - it could mean many different processess, some of which can occur without oxygen, some can't.

    as ever in these sorts of things its not the answer thats the problem its the question :p
     
  18. William

    Capodecina

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    Location: Derby

    It does, it is simply a very hot particle. :)
     
  19. aardvark

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 2 Jan 2005

    Posts: 8,100

    Location: leeds

    a hot particle or a burning particle? aren't they both sparks?

    spark1 Audio pronunciation of "spark" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spärk)
    n.

    1. An incandescent particle, especially:
    1. One thrown off from a burning substance.
    2. One resulting from friction.
    3. One remaining in an otherwise extinguished fire; an ember.
    2. A glistening particle, as of metal.
    3.
    1. A flash of light, especially a flash produced by electric discharge.
    2. A short pulse or flow of electric current.
    4. A trace or suggestion, as:
    1. A quality or feeling with latent potential; a seed or germ: the spark of genius.
    2. A vital, animating, or activating factor: the spark of revolution.
    5. sparks (used with a sing. verb) Informal. A radio operator aboard a ship.
    6. Electricity.
    1. The luminous phenomenon resulting from a disruptive discharge through an insulating material.
    2. The discharge itself.


    see?
     
    Last edited: 1 Jun 2006
  20. William

    Capodecina

    Joined: 26 Jul 2003

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    Location: Derby

    You ever stuck your hand into somthing that was burning? Was it hot? :p