So you think a dc2 integra is crap too and not a drivers car because its fwd?
Spec me: £6-9k, practical(ish), fun(ish), low use
- Thread starter RobHu
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So you think a dc2 integra is crap too and not a drivers car because its fwd?
Caporegime
Sounds like it, as well as all the 90's BTCC SuperTourers and their homologation counterparts, as well as every hot hatch ever.
GT86 looks like the most interesting car of that price for me.
They have folding rear seats that allow long and large items to be loaded in. Can't use rear seats then of course, but you don't need them.
Caporegime
Sounds like it, as well as all the 90's BTCC SuperTourers and their homologation counterparts, as well as every hot hatch ever.
Isn't that because they have to penalise rwd cars in btcc?
Not because fwd are inherently good, but because they are slower.
The ITR is one of the best FWD cars sure but its a rare beast almost extinct. Wheras rwd good handling cars are available.
Caporegime
There are tonnes of excellent handling FWD cars, I don't think the driven wheels are that important when it comes to handling. A well tuned chassis makes a far bigger difference.
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Never done much for me if I’m honest but each to their own. I’ve only ever owned hatch backs as that’s all that’s ever interested me, it’s not like our roads are designed to be drifted around either.
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Just think how much better it would have been if it shoved instead of pulled.
Kind of like how good the s2000 was.
My first bought car was a primera eGT so i know fwd can be good drives, however i cannot help but think how much better they could be with rwd.
Caporegime
No point thinking that way, they would never have existed as RWD.
I do love the handling of my P11 Primera GT, not sure how much it shares with the P10 Primera eGT.
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I wish we could have got rwd versions of the best hot hatches, that said small wheelbase rwd cars can be a little... er difficult. I dont know what Mazda puts into the mx5 for it to be so good with such a short wheelbase but it never feels like its gonna do a random 360 on you for no reason.
I have been chasing the handling of my p10 ever since i sold it, the 200sx i had went through 3 or 4 major suspension changed - various springs/dampers then coilovers and bushings, arbs god the list was endless - it never felt as good as the p10. Then again it was a monster and would bite you in the butt if you were slack with driving it.
Then i tried the "ultimate driving machine" - an e46 330msport coupe... it was terrible. Far far far too heavy with that massive ship anchor infront.
And so onto the ND, it also didnt start out as good as the p10... yep thats right i was still chasing that handling feel i wanted. It wasnt until recently when i got the proper spring kit and alignment that finally i had a car that felt like it had proper top drawer handling... or it could just have been the lack of lean in the corners.
I have been chasing the handling of my p10 ever since i sold it, the 200sx i had went through 3 or 4 major suspension changed - various springs/dampers then coilovers and bushings, arbs god the list was endless - it never felt as good as the p10. Then again it was a monster and would bite you in the butt if you were slack with driving it.
Then i tried the "ultimate driving machine" - an e46 330msport coupe... it was terrible. Far far far too heavy with that massive ship anchor infront.
And so onto the ND, it also didnt start out as good as the p10... yep thats right i was still chasing that handling feel i wanted. It wasnt until recently when i got the proper spring kit and alignment that finally i had a car that felt like it had proper top drawer handling... or it could just have been the lack of lean in the corners.
Caporegime
The p10 had slightly better handling due to the rear suspension i think plus was lighter but slightly less power.
I liked mine it was a fun car till I crashed mine
Caporegime
The p10 had slightly better handling due to the rear suspension i think plus was lighter but slightly less power.
I liked mine it was a fun car till I crashed mine
P11 has multi-link rear beam suspension, not sure what the P10 has. Mine is 170KG lighter than stock (and 60:40 w/d) and has a few more ponies than stock as well, t'is good fun!
Sorry to hear you crashed it.
Makes a change to tin work getting them though I suppose!
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I think its the weight that does it, ok its got a mega chassis - hell they were doing great in touring cars. But the weight is always the clincher.
I think the p10 was only 1150 kilos, 100 less than my stock 200sx, over 400kilos less than my e46 and about 100kilos more than the mk4 MX5.
It was such a fun car, 150hp was fine in thosedays, mods wise i only ever had it on a set of eibachs and 16" wheels - it was superb.
Mind driving a p11 GT and thinking .... somethings went wrong somewhere, not that the p11 was bad... but it didnt seem as good as the p10 - but then it was like 1300 kilos soo..........
When i came to buying the miata a few years back i had 3 cars on my shortlist and i drove all 3 hard before deciding.
The first was the last gen fiesta ST, yes its a stotter. But the interior was a bit naff and the Ford garage treated me like dirt and didnt even know about the factory power upgrade kit.
Second was a gt86 (of course!) and it was great apart... from the power delivery which has an annoying as buggery dip in torque. Plus it was quite heavy.
Then it was the Nd, was as fast as the FST (and a bit quicker than the gt86), handled very well, had a good ride and its interior was miles better than either the other cars. Downside is, its not that practical (although i have not had too many complaints)
Now i have a full exhaust (ta ta cat), stg2 map with 7500rpm limiter and its running eibachs with proper alignment - god its a missile down a backroad but i think the breaks are going to need some work next as i am hitting the limit of the stockers not the 4 pots
I think the p10 was only 1150 kilos, 100 less than my stock 200sx, over 400kilos less than my e46 and about 100kilos more than the mk4 MX5.
It was such a fun car, 150hp was fine in thosedays, mods wise i only ever had it on a set of eibachs and 16" wheels - it was superb.
Mind driving a p11 GT and thinking .... somethings went wrong somewhere, not that the p11 was bad... but it didnt seem as good as the p10 - but then it was like 1300 kilos soo..........
When i came to buying the miata a few years back i had 3 cars on my shortlist and i drove all 3 hard before deciding.
The first was the last gen fiesta ST, yes its a stotter. But the interior was a bit naff and the Ford garage treated me like dirt and didnt even know about the factory power upgrade kit.
Second was a gt86 (of course!) and it was great apart... from the power delivery which has an annoying as buggery dip in torque. Plus it was quite heavy.
Then it was the Nd, was as fast as the FST (and a bit quicker than the gt86), handled very well, had a good ride and its interior was miles better than either the other cars. Downside is, its not that practical (although i have not had too many complaints)
Now i have a full exhaust (ta ta cat), stg2 map with 7500rpm limiter and its running eibachs with proper alignment - god its a missile down a backroad but i think the breaks are going to need some work next as i am hitting the limit of the stockers not the 4 pots
Caporegime
1230KG for the P10 eGT apparently.
I say apparently because the P11 GT Saloon weights 1250KG according to Nissan, but mine started off at 1398KG and ended up at 1229KG after I put it on a diet. (rear interior, spare wheel, complete AC system and a few other bits removed, battery re-located, stainless manifold and downpipe, etc)
It isn't fast, but it is fast enough to be enjoyable when ragged around backroads. I think its a great car.
I say apparently because the P11 GT Saloon weights 1250KG according to Nissan, but mine started off at 1398KG and ended up at 1229KG after I put it on a diet. (rear interior, spare wheel, complete AC system and a few other bits removed, battery re-located, stainless manifold and downpipe, etc)
It isn't fast, but it is fast enough to be enjoyable when ragged around backroads. I think its a great car.
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Caporegime
P11 has multi-link rear beam suspension, not sure what the P10 has. Mine is 170KG lighter than stock (and 60:40 w/d) and has a few more ponies than stock as well, t'is good fun!
Sorry to hear you crashed it.
P10 is independent and the rear suspension is a "multi-link beam" on the P11. According to g20 forums.
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It is a great car, overshadowed by some of the epic hot hatches of its time but it could still shift.
And of course its heart is an SR20de which when it grows up becomes an sr20det and spits flames.
Iirc the primeras sr20 was more akin to the sunny GTiRs redtop - the s200sx had the black top SR20det - with the annoying Nvvt or whatever it was called, variable valve timing which made almost every 200sx blacktop rattle.
The fix, well apart from a new sprocket you can just run 12v to the solenoid all the time to keep it on the higher throughput cams and map out the difference.
Yep been there with SR20s.... a lot...
And of course its heart is an SR20de which when it grows up becomes an sr20det and spits flames.
Iirc the primeras sr20 was more akin to the sunny GTiRs redtop - the s200sx had the black top SR20det - with the annoying Nvvt or whatever it was called, variable valve timing which made almost every 200sx blacktop rattle.
The fix, well apart from a new sprocket you can just run 12v to the solenoid all the time to keep it on the higher throughput cams and map out the difference.
Yep been there with SR20s.... a lot...
Caporegime
I think the type of SR20 changed between the P10 and P11, mine is the SR20DE low port blacktop with sodium filled exhaust valves. If that means anything to you! Supposed to be 150HP standard, mine should probably be making closer to 165HP assuming it was healthy before I started bolting things to it.
Very sweet running engine. Leaks like the torrey canyon though.
Very sweet running engine. Leaks like the torrey canyon though.
Caporegime
Makes a huge difference. Far easier to attain better weight distribution.
Tyres also have a limited amount of grip. If you are trying to accelerate then you are going to be compromised if you try to steer with the same wheels. You'll either understeer or lose acceleration.
Also how many fwd drift cars do you see compared to rwd?
Caporegime
Ignoring the silly "drift cars" sentence......
It does make a difference of course, but my point was that a FWD car is designed from the ground up as a FWD car, so if it is engineered properly the chassis dynamics could be just so that it handles as well as a similar RWD car.
Tyres do indeed have a limited amount of grip, but to be quite honest, I cannot unstick the front end of my Primera with its ContiSportContacts on a warm dry day no matter how hard I try, it just grips and grips and grips. I'm sure I am losing acceleration though vs having the different axles each doing their own things!
My E30 is having a tonne of stuff done to it very soon. Track spec hybrid fully adjustable coilovers with solid mounts, billet fully adjustable top mounts, rear camber and toe plates, a fast road alignment, and some new wheels with AD08R's as the cherry on top. I am looking forward to seeing if it can put as much of a smile on my face as the cheap ****box Primera can! It already has a spattering of new bushings, a plated LSD out of an M3 and other bits...
If it can then maybe the Primera can go bye bye and I can pick up another luxobarge daily driver.
Some outliers which no one else will mention....
Subaru Legacy 3.0R Spec B AWD, facelift models 2006-2009 are equipped with BT, Nav, Leather, Heated Seats, Xenons, Dual Climate, Cruise etc. Manual is very rare but good for 0-60 in about 6s and 150+ mph top, the 5 speed Auto slush box in the facelifts is also not to be sniffed at. They also sound fantastic with a decent exhaust... *Fishing rod friendly with the Wagon version
Volvo S80 V8 AWD - extremely rare but everyone likes an outsider
Honda Legend V6 AWD - incredible value for money, they should be reliable but just pray you don't need to buy a LCA or such...
Lexus LS460 V8 RWD - again incredible value for money and can be got within your budget - drive to the moon and back and not worry about breaking down.. AWD ones are available but also as rare as hens teeth
So if you want something exciting and great for B roads and incredible road handling in all weather and leaving everyone else behind in the snow get a Subaru - if you want wafting get the Lexus, if you want to be an outsider get the Volvo
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