Spec me a CCTV System
- Thread starter Sirrel Squirrel
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Soldato
They could be anything. They’re not rebranded Hikvision or Dahua though because Annke are not on the US Government restricted list. They’re probably SysVision from the look of the NVR and the menu structure of the NVR software.
Wasn’t sure whether to post a new thread or not - apologies.
Looking for suggestions for a true WiFi IP camera that doesn’t go through some 3rd party P2P app or server but something I can view via browser on local LAN. Don’t need remote viewing, just purely local and for now I don’t have NVR but possibly in future. Do I just need something PoE or do they use P2P servers too?
Looking for suggestions for a true WiFi IP camera that doesn’t go through some 3rd party P2P app or server but something I can view via browser on local LAN. Don’t need remote viewing, just purely local and for now I don’t have NVR but possibly in future. Do I just need something PoE or do they use P2P servers too?
Soldato
Pretty much every WiFi IP camera will do this. You could even use Dahua DMSS Windows software to make your PC an NVR. If you get a camera with a MicroSD card slot then DMSS will automatically copy across anything recorded while the PC was switched off. Other than that, yes, you just need PoE or a 12V power adapter.
What do you want the camera for? Do you need night vision? Zoom? What sort of resolution? And this might seem like a daft question, but if you have PoE why would you want WiFi?
Thanks @WJA96 - I don’t have PoE but every WiFi IP camera I’ve looked at seems to have a requirement for a third party account and monitoring via app through P2P. The reason I mention PoE was that most cameras I’ve looked at with LAN interface were PoE cameras. Anything that didn’t mention PoE were app / P2P based.
Ideally an IP camera that can be accessed via browser on internal LAN IP. I don’t mind if it’s wired or wireless so long as it’s internal LAN only.
It’s for keeping eye on early ASB and plan on using PC as an NVR as you said. Just basic for now with camera indoors through window so no outdoor mounting, no need for night vision or zoom. Have tried a 720p USB webcam which works OK as a test but restricted by USB extension limit. I don’t mind CAT5 to the modem router. Primarily just need to be able to view camera though it’s own web interface via browser.
Any suggestions on particular models that have this?
All the small popular ones such as Nests and Blinks need apps, the large ones such as h.view / hikvision are well reviewed and seem to be accessible via its own web interface but perhaps big for indoor use initially. There are small PoE / bird box cameras that I keep coming back to so was hoping if any suggestions / experiences.
I’ll look at DMSS and see if they have a list of supported cameras and work backwards from that to see which are only LAN based.
Edit: Even looked at the small compact Raspberry Pi cameras but I’m not too clued up on Pi OS, I’m more Windows. Keep meaning to learn but in the meantime looking for something quick.
Ideally an IP camera that can be accessed via browser on internal LAN IP. I don’t mind if it’s wired or wireless so long as it’s internal LAN only.
It’s for keeping eye on early ASB and plan on using PC as an NVR as you said. Just basic for now with camera indoors through window so no outdoor mounting, no need for night vision or zoom. Have tried a 720p USB webcam which works OK as a test but restricted by USB extension limit. I don’t mind CAT5 to the modem router. Primarily just need to be able to view camera though it’s own web interface via browser.
Any suggestions on particular models that have this?
All the small popular ones such as Nests and Blinks need apps, the large ones such as h.view / hikvision are well reviewed and seem to be accessible via its own web interface but perhaps big for indoor use initially. There are small PoE / bird box cameras that I keep coming back to so was hoping if any suggestions / experiences.
I’ll look at DMSS and see if they have a list of supported cameras and work backwards from that to see which are only LAN based.
Edit: Even looked at the small compact Raspberry Pi cameras but I’m not too clued up on Pi OS, I’m more Windows. Keep meaning to learn but in the meantime looking for something quick.
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Soldato
Quite literally any camera will do what you want, but if you want something cheap & cheerful then I would suggest something from Provision.
Provision are the biggest OEM supplier in Israel and they make the usual range of IP cameras which, because of import duties (or the lack of) are pretty cheap in the UK.
The cheapest camera we install is the the 2MP 2.8mm DI320-IPS-28 which is £33+VAT. Image quality is excellent in the daylight and at night it’s perfectly acceptable, albeit in black and white.
https://www.cop-eu.com/ip-cameras-nvrs/ip-cameras/DI-320IPS-28
and you’ll need a PoE injector if you don’t have one. This Kenable one is £7.78+VAT.
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/cctv-s...switch-injector-15w-010309-6932849423273.html
Provision are the biggest OEM supplier in Israel and they make the usual range of IP cameras which, because of import duties (or the lack of) are pretty cheap in the UK.
The cheapest camera we install is the the 2MP 2.8mm DI320-IPS-28 which is £33+VAT. Image quality is excellent in the daylight and at night it’s perfectly acceptable, albeit in black and white.
https://www.cop-eu.com/ip-cameras-nvrs/ip-cameras/DI-320IPS-28
and you’ll need a PoE injector if you don’t have one. This Kenable one is £7.78+VAT.
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/cctv-s...switch-injector-15w-010309-6932849423273.html
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@WJA96 !
Any advice!?
I've just installed the indoor station - but not the door bell yet. For what it's worth - I bought the ones that you suggested!
The issue I'm having is adding the cams - which are directly connected to the NVR to enable me to view them in live view mode? I've seen mention of different IP addresses - as the cams are effectively a sub domain of the NVR now?
Happy to post all relevant IP addresses etc to see if you can figure it out - but just wondering if I've done it bum about face and should have got the doorbell at the same time, before I start fiddling?
Cheers!
Tom
Any advice!?
I've just installed the indoor station - but not the door bell yet. For what it's worth - I bought the ones that you suggested!
The issue I'm having is adding the cams - which are directly connected to the NVR to enable me to view them in live view mode? I've seen mention of different IP addresses - as the cams are effectively a sub domain of the NVR now?
Happy to post all relevant IP addresses etc to see if you can figure it out - but just wondering if I've done it bum about face and should have got the doorbell at the same time, before I start fiddling?
Cheers!
Tom
Soldato
Select IPC and add the NVR IP address. That should bring up all the cameras and you can pick the one you want to look at.
The cameras are very likely on a completely different subnet unless you are powering the doorbell and display station from the NVR as well, in which case they will be on the correct subnet and you’ll be able to add each IPC directly. Does that make sense?
The cameras are very likely on a completely different subnet unless you are powering the doorbell and display station from the NVR as well, in which case they will be on the correct subnet and you’ll be able to add each IPC directly. Does that make sense?
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EDIT! - actually re-read your message... so I think that I add the IP address of the NVR on my network, and just select the channel, or cam name?
I installed hik connect - and that worked perfectly - although I'm using that through NoIP for DDNS - does that add another layer of complication!?
Sort of! Initially I used ethernet cable straight from the indoor station straight into a POE port on the NVR. I went through the setup - but I think as I hadn't plugged in the doorbell that it threw a wobbler. I tried to add the cams from the NVR separately, by IP - but no joy - it just threw up the error.
I then nipped out and bought a small POE switch (which I can return quite easily). I mocked up the doorbell and after resetting everything, plugged both the doorbell and indoor station into the POE switch, and the wizard thing worked first time - two way comms and live view was spot on
... I think it automatically assigned a static IP on my network for both devices. Again - I tried to add the cams from the NVR using their IPs on the NVR - but, I'm assuming that - as they're sub domains of the IP address of the NVR - that it can't pull it through!? Or.... do I add the IP address of the NVR and select channel?
I haven't actually run the new cat5 for the doorbell yet - so wonder if I should get everything set up and then troubleshoot?
Not exactly a novice - but the more involved stuff is pretty new to me - terminology certainly!!
Cheers,
Tom
I installed hik connect - and that worked perfectly - although I'm using that through NoIP for DDNS - does that add another layer of complication!?
Sort of! Initially I used ethernet cable straight from the indoor station straight into a POE port on the NVR. I went through the setup - but I think as I hadn't plugged in the doorbell that it threw a wobbler. I tried to add the cams from the NVR separately, by IP - but no joy - it just threw up the error.
I then nipped out and bought a small POE switch (which I can return quite easily). I mocked up the doorbell and after resetting everything, plugged both the doorbell and indoor station into the POE switch, and the wizard thing worked first time - two way comms and live view was spot on
... I think it automatically assigned a static IP on my network for both devices. Again - I tried to add the cams from the NVR using their IPs on the NVR - but, I'm assuming that - as they're sub domains of the IP address of the NVR - that it can't pull it through!? Or.... do I add the IP address of the NVR and select channel?
I haven't actually run the new cat5 for the doorbell yet - so wonder if I should get everything set up and then troubleshoot?
Not exactly a novice - but the more involved stuff is pretty new to me - terminology certainly!!
Cheers,
Tom
Soldato
Your network at home has a router and that router hands out IP addresses within a defined range, called a subnet. It’s almost certainly on the 192.168.x.x subnetting range. And it does this dynamically (using DHCP). So that’s the ‘big’ network in your home. And your ‘big’ network has an interface to the internet - the WAN interface. And almost all routers do something called Network Address Translation (NAT) to send messages to and from the devices on your 192.168.x.x network to the internet through the WAN interface. One WAN IP address becomes up to 254 IP addresses on your home network. I think you know all of this already.
When you start the NVR, and connect the cameras the network port you use to connect the NVR to your home network is the NVRs WAN interface. And the NVR gives each camera a fixed IP address within another completely different subnet. Usually the 10.1.x.x subnet. So your ‘big’ home network can’t see the cameras, just the NVR. And the NVR isn’t a router. It just knows 4, 8, 16 or 32 IP addresses it can use for a camera stream. And it doesn’t do NAT so the cameras are invisible to your home network, you only see the NVR on your ‘big’ network.
So when you plugged the DisplayStation into the NVR it powered up fine because it’s PoE but it was allocated an IP address range on a private network that has no between-channels routing capability so your DisplayStation could not see any cameras even though they were in the same subnet. Had you known the individual 10.1.x.x IP addresses of each camera you could have entered those individually in the IPC tab under devices and it would have worked because you don’t need a router to view a fixed IP address on the same subnet.
When you plugged the DisplayStation and doorbell into the PoE switch, the switch let those devices see each other and they worked fine. Again, not routed, but switched, with IP addresses handed out on the same subnet.
So, what you need to do is plug the PoE switch into your home ‘big’ router and plug the DisplayStation and Doorbell into that for power and access to the internet.
Then, under the devices tab on the DisplayStation, select IPC and give it the 192.168.x.x IP address of the NVR. You will then get access to the NVRs interface to view any camera connected to the NVR.
To record from the doorbell camera, manually add the doorbell 192.168.x.x IP address to the NVRs camera list and set to Dahua or ONVIF and it will record like any other camera stream. The doorbell will count as one of your camera licences on the NVR so if you have an 8 channel recorder you may only be able to plug in 7 cameras to one of the 8 PoE ports as you’re using the other licence on the 192.168.x.x interface.
I hope that clarifies it for you without talking down at you. Very often I find enthusiasts have great knowledge but miss little bits here and there and I don’t want to insult you or seem condescending.
Subnetting (and understanding what a router does) is the key to 99.9% of all networking issues in my experience.
When you start the NVR, and connect the cameras the network port you use to connect the NVR to your home network is the NVRs WAN interface. And the NVR gives each camera a fixed IP address within another completely different subnet. Usually the 10.1.x.x subnet. So your ‘big’ home network can’t see the cameras, just the NVR. And the NVR isn’t a router. It just knows 4, 8, 16 or 32 IP addresses it can use for a camera stream. And it doesn’t do NAT so the cameras are invisible to your home network, you only see the NVR on your ‘big’ network.
So when you plugged the DisplayStation into the NVR it powered up fine because it’s PoE but it was allocated an IP address range on a private network that has no between-channels routing capability so your DisplayStation could not see any cameras even though they were in the same subnet. Had you known the individual 10.1.x.x IP addresses of each camera you could have entered those individually in the IPC tab under devices and it would have worked because you don’t need a router to view a fixed IP address on the same subnet.
When you plugged the DisplayStation and doorbell into the PoE switch, the switch let those devices see each other and they worked fine. Again, not routed, but switched, with IP addresses handed out on the same subnet.
So, what you need to do is plug the PoE switch into your home ‘big’ router and plug the DisplayStation and Doorbell into that for power and access to the internet.
Then, under the devices tab on the DisplayStation, select IPC and give it the 192.168.x.x IP address of the NVR. You will then get access to the NVRs interface to view any camera connected to the NVR.
To record from the doorbell camera, manually add the doorbell 192.168.x.x IP address to the NVRs camera list and set to Dahua or ONVIF and it will record like any other camera stream. The doorbell will count as one of your camera licences on the NVR so if you have an 8 channel recorder you may only be able to plug in 7 cameras to one of the 8 PoE ports as you’re using the other licence on the 192.168.x.x interface.
I hope that clarifies it for you without talking down at you. Very often I find enthusiasts have great knowledge but miss little bits here and there and I don’t want to insult you or seem condescending.
Subnetting (and understanding what a router does) is the key to 99.9% of all networking issues in my experience.
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I think I sort of understood the concept very loosely (terminology aside!) - but that's made it crystal clear! Cheers!
I did plug the uplink port from the switch into the router - and could physically see everything in ivms and on my network device list - but just couldn't figure out certain bits...
I'll work through it all and let you know!
Cheers for the very detailed response!
I did plug the uplink port from the switch into the router - and could physically see everything in ivms and on my network device list - but just couldn't figure out certain bits...
I'll work through it all and let you know!
Cheers for the very detailed response!
Today given the truly foul weather has brought a perenial problem with CCTV cameras back to light, spiders webs! Why do they insist on weaving a web in front of the most inaccessible cameras ? I have a spider repellant product but it's only good so long as the rain doesn't wash it away. Any ideas to minimise this or is it just one of those things we have to live with?
Edit: Even worse now, since I typed that the spider has decided to sit right in the centre of the lens meaning there's just an opaque blob in the centre!
Edit: Even worse now, since I typed that the spider has decided to sit right in the centre of the lens meaning there's just an opaque blob in the centre!
I bought a pole and attached a very soft bristled brush at the end for this exact problem , laying in bed last night noticed a spider was sat right over the lens but thanks to very heavy rain last night it didn't last long
I bought a pole and attached a very soft bristled brush at the end for this exact problem , laying in bed last night noticed a spider was sat right over the lens but thanks to very heavy rain last night it didn't last long
I do have one of those and occasionally use it, but then they just go weave another web again in the same place. Maybe it's the heat from the IR lamps they are drawn to?
The IR attracts flying insects always lots around my cameras and those sneaky spiders have worked this out
Last nights heavy rain washed them away
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@WJA96 - all working perfectly now - the device tab wasn't as intuitive as first thought - basically just changing the channel number - but spot on now.
Just need to re-run some cat5 cable (terminated it each end 6 times and still get an error on the very cheap tester I have - always the individual cable number so assuming there is a kink or damage to it somewhere along the way.
Just need to re-run some cat5 cable (terminated it each end 6 times and still get an error on the very cheap tester I have - always the individual cable number so assuming there is a kink or damage to it somewhere along the way.
Soldato
I use unifi stuff and very happy with it however I have had a friend moving to a new house want security cameras and no monthly fees. This friend has issues with a past partner who liked to lurk and vandalise things and generally be a creep sob. The g4 pro etc are too expensive so been looking at Dahua and Hikvision and a NVR or similar but I freely admit it's not my wheelhouse. Any suggestions for say 300 to 400 for a 1 preferably 2 cameras that have amazing night vision and great quality on par with the best UI stuff. Would need to have a easy to use phone app that can do alerts and be basically as friendly as nest / Ring to use. They can be POE I can use injectors and as I'm installing them cable runs etc no issues. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Soldato
You should be able to get 2 Dahua 5MP TiOC cameras for about £110+VAT each and a recorder will be about £150+VAT. The recorder will power the cameras and the cameras act as both surveillance and alarms if you want. The free Dahua DMSS app will give you alerts on your phone. There are loads of people in this thread running this combination and there was only one person who had an issue with the cameras and he had an issue with them not responding fast enough to someone sprinting across his garden. And I admit, I couldn’t find a resolution to that.
And, as nice as the G4s are, I doubt you’ll look at them the same way once you’ve seen the night vision on the TiOCs.
Soldato
Thank you for the recommendation that seems such a great price for the camera features I'm looking at. Tempted to grab one and give it a try with the app before recommending it. Seen this one here DH-IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV is £125 instead of DH-IPC-HDW3549H-AS-PV at £110. The extra 15 quid seems a good deal for a jump from 5mp to 8mp the only major difference I can see is the 3.6mm vs 2.8mm lens would that make a massive difference?
I'm hoping the quality makes me put off buying another g4 pro
I'm hoping the quality makes me put off buying another g4 pro
Soldato
Thank you for the recommendation that seems such a great price for the camera features I'm looking at. Tempted to grab one and give it a try with the app before recommending it. Seen this one here DH-IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV is £125 instead of DH-IPC-HDW3549H-AS-PV at £110. The extra 15 quid seems a good deal for a jump from 5mp to 8mp the only major difference I can see is the 3.6mm vs 2.8mm lens would that make a massive difference?
I'm hoping the quality makes me put off buying another g4 pro
The lens is just the bit of glass in front of the sensor. You should be able to get any of the lens options (2.8mm, 3.6mm, 6mm) with all the sensor sizes. The 3.6mm gives you about an 85-degree view and the 2.8mm gives you about a 100-degree view. The issue with the 4K sensor used in the 8MP version is that it’s relatively insensitive (F1.4 vs. F1.0) so your working visible night range drops from 40m (bullet) or 30m (eyeball) to 20m and the actual images themselves aren’t as good. You get artefacting and sparklies under some conditions. In truth, the best image quality is on the 2MP version of the camera. But that’s only 1080P and customers turn their noses up at ‘only’ 1080P. The 5MP is the sweet-spot. It’s the same price as the 2MP and you get decent image quality at night. They’ve had to drop the price on the 8MP because customers don’t like them when they see the image quality at night compared to the 5MP.
Add in the reduced frame rate and extra bandwidth/HDD space required for the 8MP image and it doesn’t make sense.
Personally, I would always go with the bullet version, HFW. The soft LED light is better and they’re easier to install and aim.
And when you see what G4 Pro money buys with Dahua, you’ll send your whole Protect system back. You can get a starlight auto-tracking PTZ with built-in 4G for that sort of money.