Stop the less than subtle competitor hinting.
- Thread starter Orifice
- Start date
Recently I said 'you can get it for £9.99 at the unmentionable shop' - is that okay?
I do think there is confusion on this issue - yes some people know they are doing 'wrong' but the rest of us aren't sure, and unless we are told in words of one syllable then the confusion will continue. The only way I can think of would be to list the more well known retailers which we *are* allowed to mention. Otherwise how are people going to know? I didn't even know we were allowed to mention game and gameplay until the other day.
edit - how come there's two identical threads?!
I do think there is confusion on this issue - yes some people know they are doing 'wrong' but the rest of us aren't sure, and unless we are told in words of one syllable then the confusion will continue. The only way I can think of would be to list the more well known retailers which we *are* allowed to mention. Otherwise how are people going to know? I didn't even know we were allowed to mention game and gameplay until the other day.
edit - how come there's two identical threads?!
Permabanned
Caonsidering the GAME also sell hardware, the rule is so blurred and grey that it is almost useless.
JimmyEatWorms said:
As do gameplay.
I hope Orifice doesn't think we are being awkward here, and can see that there is genuine confusion. I think there are only two ways to end the confusion and that is either have a 'whitelist' of permitted shops, or do as before and ban all mention of any shops whatsoever. (Or my preferred choice of allowing mention of any shop at all so long as you're only referring to PC or console games, but I expect hell would freeze over first
)
Associate
Trouble is the boundarys are ever changing in as to which shops are competitors with more stores selling hardware etc.
Also forum rules regarding competitors seems to change every so often and unless you read all threads like these and/or FAQ's on a regular basis how would you know?
I still thought we could mention stores but not direct link to products etc
Also forum rules regarding competitors seems to change every so often and unless you read all threads like these and/or FAQ's on a regular basis how would you know?
I still thought we could mention stores but not direct link to products etc
The range of hardware that Game and Gameplay sell compared to the place that you cant link to is absolutely tiny. I swear the people on here just like to be as awkward as possible.
I dont see whats so hard about not linking to or hinting at the store in mind. If you drop subtle hints, you know what your doing is wrong. Its not rocket science.
Another outright ban on all shops that sell any item OcUK do well be the result, as people in here dont seem to be able to stop themselves.
I dont see whats so hard about not linking to or hinting at the store in mind. If you drop subtle hints, you know what your doing is wrong. Its not rocket science.
Another outright ban on all shops that sell any item OcUK do well be the result, as people in here dont seem to be able to stop themselves.
Orifice said:
I thought you'd think like that - people try to clarify things and you just accuse them of being awkward. With that attitude things won't improve here because the rule is still very vague and ambiguous. There's no point saying 'dont be awkward, you KNOW which shops are okay and which arent' - because no, I don't and nor do a lot of people!
Well I did say that some people know they are breaking the rules, just that some of the other shops fall into a more grey area.
If you and Spie are this bothered about competition then I think you should ban all mention of any of them to avoid confusion.
If you and Spie are this bothered about competition then I think you should ban all mention of any of them to avoid confusion.
Well if hinting at competitors is that big a problem then just make a list of acceptable sites. Jesus it cant be that hard can it, I mean people arent mind readers. If its that big a problem then surely the owner of the forums or whoever that is would just make a sticky stating that. 
I just mainly read these forums and cant see that big a problem, its not as though ocuk sell consoles. If competitors names are that big a threat then just ban all competitor names. TBH Im not really sure why a big online store would set up a massive forum like this them get upset if a competitors name is mentioned, just seems a bit unprofessional. There are like hundreds of posts a day, what you expect?
I just mainly read these forums and cant see that big a problem, its not as though ocuk sell consoles. If competitors names are that big a threat then just ban all competitor names. TBH Im not really sure why a big online store would set up a massive forum like this them get upset if a competitors name is mentioned, just seems a bit unprofessional. There are like hundreds of posts a day, what you expect?
Commissario
the number of allowed sites is generally much larger than the banned site.
The main thing is, people need to use common sense and to stop the hinting when they think, or know that a site isn't allowed to be mentioned.
Making a list of allowed sites won't stop that, we still get people hinting about places that have always been banned as they are direct competitors and not games retailers.
If a company is primarily games related stuff it's a fair bet to say it will be ok to mention, if a company if primarily a toy retailer it should be ok to mention as long as you're not referring to it for hardware. same with most retailers.
It's when they sell a lot of hardware, or stuff that OCUK sells that it isn't ok (Game iirc sell some hardware, but very very little).
The retailer that seems to be hinted at most often was ok at one point, but as their range of products has grown they've gone from being ok to mention to being on the banned list.
As for people getting banned, the number of users banned is tiny, the number of users suspended is also pretty low at any one time (we don't normally ban, but suspend).
We've been taking it fairly lightly with regards to hinting but if people want we can, and will start suspending people for hinting*.
It doesn't take much common sense to look at a retailer and think "well they sell stuff OCUK sell, I'll check before posting" rather than "The mods are dumb, they won't get the reference to a retailer, but everyone else will" when unsure.
People have been taking the preverbial mickey with regards to the rules in here, mainly with competitors but also with regards to things that are laid out clearly (in blue and white) in the FAQ and stickies.
With regards to wh we would get upset about people posting competitors on the forums. The forums cost a lot of money to run, they are not to be used to effectively advertise other companies.
It's not unproffessional to expect people to abide by the terms and conditions, and rules that they agreed to when they signed up to use the boards.
*If we were to crackdown, there would have been about 10-20 people suspended last night from this subforum alone (which would triple the number of people currently suspended across the rest of the boards).
The main thing is, people need to use common sense and to stop the hinting when they think, or know that a site isn't allowed to be mentioned.
Making a list of allowed sites won't stop that, we still get people hinting about places that have always been banned as they are direct competitors and not games retailers.
If a company is primarily games related stuff it's a fair bet to say it will be ok to mention, if a company if primarily a toy retailer it should be ok to mention as long as you're not referring to it for hardware. same with most retailers.
It's when they sell a lot of hardware, or stuff that OCUK sells that it isn't ok (Game iirc sell some hardware, but very very little).
The retailer that seems to be hinted at most often was ok at one point, but as their range of products has grown they've gone from being ok to mention to being on the banned list.
As for people getting banned, the number of users banned is tiny, the number of users suspended is also pretty low at any one time (we don't normally ban, but suspend).
We've been taking it fairly lightly with regards to hinting but if people want we can, and will start suspending people for hinting*.
It doesn't take much common sense to look at a retailer and think "well they sell stuff OCUK sell, I'll check before posting" rather than "The mods are dumb, they won't get the reference to a retailer, but everyone else will" when unsure.
People have been taking the preverbial mickey with regards to the rules in here, mainly with competitors but also with regards to things that are laid out clearly (in blue and white) in the FAQ and stickies.
With regards to wh we would get upset about people posting competitors on the forums. The forums cost a lot of money to run, they are not to be used to effectively advertise other companies.
It's not unproffessional to expect people to abide by the terms and conditions, and rules that they agreed to when they signed up to use the boards.
*If we were to crackdown, there would have been about 10-20 people suspended last night from this subforum alone (which would triple the number of people currently suspended across the rest of the boards).
Soldato
why are there two of these threads?
Why is there not a white list like we are asking or a blanket ban, which to be honest most people in these threads dont seem to be reluctant towards. You say toys thrown out of prams, but this is still mainly ocuk customers you are talking about. And TBH this seems like toys being thrown out of your prams but with little coming in by way of information.
Like i said in the other one of these threads, if you can classify how much of a competing product which these competitors sell to give a guidline, not just, well the mods/spie dont think its that much.
You cant say the speed limit is 70, but then if we feel like it on certain motorways there is a bit of give, asking which motorways it is, isnt too much to ask
Why is there not a white list like we are asking or a blanket ban, which to be honest most people in these threads dont seem to be reluctant towards. You say toys thrown out of prams, but this is still mainly ocuk customers you are talking about. And TBH this seems like toys being thrown out of your prams but with little coming in by way of information.
Like i said in the other one of these threads, if you can classify how much of a competing product which these competitors sell to give a guidline, not just, well the mods/spie dont think its that much.
You cant say the speed limit is 70, but then if we feel like it on certain motorways there is a bit of give, asking which motorways it is, isnt too much to ask
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Soldato
Well if you're going to do this, and I want to make it clear that I think it's a silly rule, then you have be consistent with punishments. One hint at a competitor (no matter who they are) and it's a suspension for x amount of time, repeat offences may result in perm bans. If you start letting anyone off, even once for this offence, you are only going to be dealing with constant complaints from those suspended/banned. This happened to me when I was suspened for 48h for a "YGM" type post in the MM, when i was allowed back in I saw loads of people getting away with it. Needless to say I was ****** off. In the end I got so fed up I grassed loads of people up. Not nice of me but hey..
So, simply mentioning "the rainforest", "purple shirts" and "jersey" etc for any reason is now going to bannable. If you're going to make this rule then you'd better enforce it properly, and not a half assed moderating job, or you're asking for trouble.
So, simply mentioning "the rainforest", "purple shirts" and "jersey" etc for any reason is now going to bannable. If you're going to make this rule then you'd better enforce it properly, and not a half assed moderating job, or you're asking for trouble.
Currys? Dixons? Game? Amazon? Ebay? Honestly, these names are all mentioned all over the forums. Its very confusing and I can understand why you don't want to give your competitors free advertising, but to the average user of this forum, you need to be clear what is or isn't allowed by making a definitive list. Otherwise, this will just go on and on.
Mods, its in your hands.
Mods, its in your hands.
JUMPURS said:
So people who dont go into the PC section and just use the Console section dont miss the thread, and vice versa.
I must say I cant see what harm a list of allowed places would do, just shove it away in the sticky somewhere - at least theres something there. Its ok to say that common sense should tell you whats banned and whats ok, but not everyone follows the same logic.
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Permabanned
Given OCUK are selling clothes, pens and car cleaning products does that mean we can't mention River Island, WH Smiths and Halfords? 
But seriously, if you're going to have a rule, make sure people are able to actually follow if without being a mind reader.
But seriously, if you're going to have a rule, make sure people are able to actually follow if without being a mind reader.
Come on now people, it's not rocket science.
If you've been allowed to mention it up to now (eg Game, Gameplay), then it's fine.
If you haven't been allowed to mention it, but have been making hints towards it, then you need to learn to read the rules.
Or, alternatively, we can just ban any mention of pretty much every store that sells games and hardware, it's been done before (and you all whinged) and it will be done again if you can't follow simple rules.
All this talk of "What should be allowed" isn't really relevant given that the problem is people reffering to places they know aren't allowed with hints. If they are hinting towards it, they know they aren't allowed to mention it by name.
-Dolph
If you've been allowed to mention it up to now (eg Game, Gameplay), then it's fine.
If you haven't been allowed to mention it, but have been making hints towards it, then you need to learn to read the rules.
Or, alternatively, we can just ban any mention of pretty much every store that sells games and hardware, it's been done before (and you all whinged) and it will be done again if you can't follow simple rules.
All this talk of "What should be allowed" isn't really relevant given that the problem is people reffering to places they know aren't allowed with hints. If they are hinting towards it, they know they aren't allowed to mention it by name.
-Dolph
Dolph said:
It has never been spelt out which are allowed and which aren't - that is the problem. You seem to assume we all just magically 'know'.
Why the hostility? You and Orifice are coming across aggressively for some reason. Most people here don't want to break the rule and get a suspension. So why not help instead of saying 'you know which ones are allowed' - sorry, we don't because we're not mind readers.