The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

[fez]

I think I've stated a number of times, quite clearly, that in my opinion neither Rashford nor Martial are out and out strikers thus Man Utd's woes up front...

Our woes up front are largely due to having a badly functioning / non existing midfield. There is no striker in world football who has top numbers in a **** team in a good league. It simply doesn't happen. Aguero is lethal but he gets so much service that its easy for a player of his quality to bang them in. At times over the past 10 years we have had a midfield that most mid-table teams wouldn't be impressed with.

 

[Thekwango]

Both on a different level to Martial / Rashford.

Still 100% stand by my initial statement - more than any other position, Man Utd need a top striker to compete with the Liverpool's & Man City's of the league

RvP was for sure on a different level but he was in is prime when we signed him. Berbatov - not a chance. Whatever type of striker UTD need it's not a Dimitar Berbatov.

 

[MeGaMaN]

What woes up front? Rashford has played about 6 games up front this season, so why are you comparing him to strikers? He's our first choice left winger. Martial has played up front with Greenwood occasionally and Ighalo since he joined.

What woes up front?!? Not sure if you are serious... Your lack of goals compared to the top teams?

I'm not sure why you are contesting everything I say so, just for clarity, I'll succinctly summarise what I've said in the previous posts:

Man Utd will never challenge for the Premiership Title until they go out and buy a top striker as they don't currently have one at the club. This position should be their priority when looking at transfer targets in the summer.

Our woes up front are largely due to having a badly functioning / non existing midfield. There is no striker in world football who has top numbers in a **** team in a good league. It simply doesn't happen. Aguero is lethal but he gets so much service that its easy for a player of his quality to bang them in. At times over the past 10 years we have had a midfield that most mid-table teams wouldn't be impressed with.

Agree 100% re. Aguero & the service he gets. Also agree you need to create more chances (the overdue arrival of Fernandes could be a massive part of solving this). However, without a top striker it doesn't matter how many chances you create as you won't put them away! If you want to challenge Liverpool & Man City then it's imperative you get a top striker.

RvP was for sure on a different level but he was in is prime when we signed him. Berbatov - not a chance. Whatever type of striker UTD need it's not a Dimitar Berbatov.

Berbatov would walk into the current Man Utd starting eleven.

 

[Shamikebab]

What woes up front?!? Not sure if you are serious... Your lack of goals compared to the top teams?

This is where you're misunderstanding. Not scoring goals doesn't necessarily mean the problem is with the strikers, just as conceding goals doesn't mean the problem is always with the defenders. You need to actually watch games, not look at a line of numbers and think you know what you're talking about. You're comparing players in wildly different roles, in wildly different teams and saying one number being bigger than another means you can draw a conclusion.

 

[Thekwango]

Berbatov would walk into the current Man Utd starting eleven.

replacing who?

 

[MeGaMaN]

This is where you're misunderstanding. Not scoring goals doesn't necessarily mean the problem is with the strikers, just as conceding goals doesn't mean the problem is always with the defenders. You need to actually watch games, not look at a line of numbers and think you know what you're talking about. You're comparing players in wildly different roles, in wildly different teams and saying one number being bigger than another means you can draw a conclusion.

No I'm not, I'm saying you are miles behind your rivals because you don't score enough goals - NOT because you concede too many.

Ergo you are either not creating enough chances or you are not putting away the chances you create (or both).

The reality is both, but the arrival of Fernandes will go some way to solving the first problem.

 

[MeGaMaN]

replacing who?

No idea, what's your best starting 11? Remember I'm not a Man Utd fan. You don't have a top class out and out Centre Forward though and very few teams are successful without one.

One could argue Liverpool buck the trend as Firmino plays a little deeper but they have two freaks in Mane & Salah & also have goals & assists all over the team (and a superior defence!)

 

[Martynt74]

Plus Rashford is what 22?

You're taking his stats over a 5 year period to work out his goals/game, when most of the early games will have been as a sub/squad player. Surely you need to look at the last 2 seasons which isn't too bad (24 goals in 55 matches = 0.43)

Instead of comparing a developing youngster against a peak RVP.

 

[Shamikebab]

No idea, what's your best starting 11? Remember I'm not a Man Utd fan

Wait...you don't even know how we play? Jesus your posts keep getting more and more pointless. Why try and analyse something you know so little about?

 

[ChrisD.]

You're taking his stats over a 5 year period to work out his goals/game, when most of the early games will have been as a sub/squad player. Surely you need to look at the last 2 seasons which isn't too bad (24 goals in 55 matches = 0.43)

Also the fact he's been used in midfield and on the wing, playing more as a forward than an out and out striker.

 

[Thekwango]

No idea, what's your best starting 11? Remember I'm not a Man Utd fan. You don't have a top class out and out Centre Forward though and very few teams are successful without one.

you're the one said he would walk onto the current UTD team so who does he replace? you can't make that claim then fall back on a 'i'm not a fan so don't know' excuse. fwiw i agree wholeheartedly UTD need a 20-30 a season striker. but Berbatov never was one of those types of players - in 3 seasons (ignore the last at UTD as he was a bit part player by then) he scored 14, 12 & 21 goals in all competitions.

edit: worth noting i am not saying Berba was a bad player, he could be a frustrating sod to watch due to languid almost lazy style but he had some utterly sublime skills - he just wasn't the type of player you think or are suggesting he was.

 

[BaZ87]

I'm not sure you can say he was never one of those types of players and use just 3 seasons to justify that. In the 7 seasons between '04-05 and '10-11, he scored over 20 goals 5 times.

I wouldn't say he was an out and out goalscorer but in those peak years, he did regularly score 20+ goals per season.

 

[MeGaMaN]

Wait...you don't even know how we play? Jesus your posts keep getting more and more pointless. Why try and analyse something you know so little about?

When did I say I don't know how you play? I said I don't know your best starting 11 - neither do you as it's subjective, but if you do please post it up and I'll tell you who I'd drop to facilitate Berbatov and why. I.e. constructive rather than your hostile responses to everything I say.

As for saying my posts are pointless and I'm analysing something I know nothing about, are you seriously suggesting only Man Utd fans are capable of analysing / suggesting improvements to your disfunctional team / system That's even more deluded than your average fan.

Why don't you post up your suggestions for how you close the gap, given mine are clearly so clueless to you?!?

you're the one said he would walk onto the current UTD team so who does he replace? you can't make that claim then fall back on a 'i'm not a fan so don't know' excuse. fwiw i agree wholeheartedly UTD need a 20-30 a season striker. but Berbatov never was one of those types of players - in 3 seasons (ignore the last at UTD as he was a bit part player by then) he scored 14, 12 & 21 goals in all competitions.

edit: worth noting i am not saying Berba was a bad player, he could be a frustrating sod to watch due to languid almost lazy style but he had some utterly sublime skills - he just wasn't the type of player you think or are suggesting he was.

Also the fact he's been used in midfield and on the wing, playing more as a forward than an out and out striker.

Yep agreed, which is what I've said all along. Man U need a top striker.

you're the one said he would walk onto the current UTD team so who does he replace? you can't make that claim then fall back on a 'i'm not a fan so don't know' excuse. fwiw i agree wholeheartedly UTD need a 20-30 a season striker. but Berbatov never was one of those types of players - in 3 seasons (ignore the last at UTD as he was a bit part player by then) he scored 14, 12 & 21 goals in all competitions.

edit: worth noting i am not saying Berba was a bad player, he could be a frustrating sod to watch due to languid almost lazy style but he had some utterly sublime skills - he just wasn't the type of player you think or are suggesting he was.

Again, post up your starting 11 and I'll tell you who I'd drop to facilitate Berbatov and why. Berba was a quality striker who not only had the ability to hold the ball up but also scored goals and created lots of chances. Agreed could be lazy/frustrating and I'm not saying he was world class. You did however win two titles with him in the starting 11.

I'm not sure you can say he was never one of those types of players and use just 3 seasons to justify that. In the 7 seasons between '04-05 and '10-11, he scored over 20 goals 5 times.

I wouldn't say he was an out and out goalscorer but in those peak years, he did regularly score 20+ goals per season.

Was never an out and out goalscorer but in my opinion, contributed massively to the two titles you won in the three or four years he was there.

 

[MeGaMaN]

Tough crowd you United fans, especially as I've not criticised you once and only tried to give constructive feedback from an unbias perspective

 

[Shamikebab]

Sorry but a basic requirement for having a discussion is a baseline of knowledge and you've shown you don't have that. Nobody said anything about only United fans being able to discuss things. I was a big fan of Berbatov but he wouldn't get into our starting 11 right now because he doesn't remotely fit the profile Solskjaer is looking for. People demanding we sign a "top class striker" will have noticed we did that with Lukaku, how did that work out? Could even argue Sanchez came in as a high profile goalscorer and flopped.

 

[Thekwango]

Again, post up your starting 11 and I'll tell you who I'd drop to facilitate Berbatov and why. Berba was a quality striker who not only had the ability to hold the ball up but also scored goals and created lots of chances. Agreed could be lazy/frustrating and I'm not saying he was world class. You did however win two titles with him in the starting 11

I’m not the one said he’d walk into UTD’s current line up - that was you. So tell me who he replaces? I’m curious?
No one is doubting his overall contribution. But you said UTD needed a 20-30 goal a season striker and mentioned Berbatov. He was never that player for UTD barring one season when he scraped 21 in all competitions.
I’m not being hostile towards you - I agree with you in principle on UTD’s need for a pivotal goal scorer. I’m just not buying that a Berbatov is what is needed. He was a luxury player which we could indulge back then because the rest of the team was so much better.
IMO there’s no way he walks on to the current UTD team, mediocre as they are, for a number of reasons.

 

[omnomnom]

Plus Rashford is what 22?

You're taking his stats over a 5 year period to work out his goals/game, when most of the early games will have been as a sub/squad player. Surely you need to look at the last 2 seasons which isn't too bad (24 goals in 55 matches = 0.43)

Instead of comparing a developing youngster against a peak RVP.

His stats this season are slightly padded by penalties to be fair.

Sorry but a basic requirement for having a discussion is a baseline of knowledge and you've shown you don't have that. Nobody said anything about only United fans being able to discuss things. I was a big fan of Berbatov but he wouldn't get into our starting 11 right now because he doesn't remotely fit the profile Solskjaer is looking for. People demanding we sign a "top class striker" will have noticed we did that with Lukaku, how did that work out? Could even argue Sanchez came in as a high profile goalscorer and flopped.

Lukaku scored 27 goals in his first season for United. Suffered the following in fairness but so did United.

If United insist on keeping Martial and Rashford then perhaps they could Fernandez play the false 9 position similar to Firmino and those two do a Mane / Salah type role?

Mctominay Fred and for eg Grealish behind is pretty solid.

 

[Shamikebab]

Lukaku scored 27 goals in his first season for United. Suffered the following in fairness but so did United.

If United insist on keeping Martial and Rashford then perhaps they could Fernandez play the false 9 position similar to Firmino and those two do a Mane / Salah type role?

Mctominay Fred and for eg Grealish behind is pretty solid.

I think Fernandes needs to be deeper really, Martial played a fairly similar role to Firmino when Rashford was playing. We've had to adapt since because he's needed to be the main goal threat. It seems like we're still targeting Sancho so I'd expect us to start with Rashford and Sancho (or someone similar) on either side of Martial. Whether we need another striker depends on how we use Greenwood. He's played both right wing and up front. It would be nice to keep Ighalo tbh, he's settled in well, works hard and clearly loves the club. I definitely don't want us to sign a 'big name' like the rumoured Cavani, we need to move away from those type of signings and fortunately it seems like we are.

 

[MeGaMaN]

Sorry but a basic requirement for having a discussion is a baseline of knowledge and you've shown you don't have that. Nobody said anything about only United fans being able to discuss things. I was a big fan of Berbatov but he wouldn't get into our starting 11 right now because he doesn't remotely fit the profile Solskjaer is looking for. People demanding we sign a "top class striker" will have noticed we did that with Lukaku, how did that work out? Could even argue Sanchez came in as a high profile goalscorer and flopped.

How do I lack a baseline knowledge? There are literally no teams who play without a centre forward so we can all agree if you want to challenge for the title, SOMEONE is going to have to play centre forward in your "best 11"?

Given someone has to play there, question 2 is who is your best player in that role? The only natural centre forward you have in the squad is Ighalo (maybe Greenwood but he's so young who knows). Then you could argue Rashford & Martial could play there (in my opinion that is not their best position).

Berbatov is a better centre forward than Ighalo, Greenwood, Martial & Rashford, ergo Berbatov makes the starting 11.

Who gets dropped to fit him in? There are 9 other outfield positions to choose from so you tell me.

EVERY team in the premier league plays with at least one centre forward, Berbatov is better in that position that every player in your squad in that position, ergo he starts.

How do you not understand this? It's really not complicated.

If you are saying, in your opinion, Ighalo, Greenwood, Martial or Rashford are better then that's fine - that's your opinion. But say that instead of saying I have no baseline knowledge of football. I'm a level 2 coach and have played semi professionally & amateur football for over 30 years so whether or not we agree on Manchester United, I do have a baseline of knowledge about football.

Re. Sanchez, he's not a centre forward either. Lukaku is, and I thought he was decent - he's certainly better than all of your other options.

I’m not the one said he’d walk into UTD’s current line up - that was you. So tell me who he replaces? I’m curious?
No one is doubting his overall contribution. But you said UTD needed a 20-30 goal a season striker and mentioned Berbatov. He was never that player for UTD barring one season when he scraped 21 in all competitions.
I’m not being hostile towards you - I agree with you in principle on UTD’s need for a pivotal goal scorer. I’m just not buying that a Berbatov is what is needed. He was a luxury player which we could indulge back then because the rest of the team was so much better.
IMO there’s no way he walks on to the current UTD team, mediocre as they are, for a number of reasons.

United don't have a 20-30 goal a season striker. Berbatov might not be the answer, but he's ahead of everything you've got, so again, he makes the starting 11 and who gets dropped to make way for him is irrelevant.

His stats this season are slightly padded by penalties to be fair.



Lukaku scored 27 goals in his first season for United. Suffered the following in fairness but so did United.

If United insist on keeping Martial and Rashford then perhaps they could Fernandez play the false 9 position similar to Firmino and those two do a Mane / Salah type role?

Mctominay Fred and for eg Grealish behind is pretty solid.

Finally someone offering something constructive instead of just dismissing everyones opinions without offering up their own.

 

[adam cool dude]

No idea, what's your best starting 11? Remember I'm not a Man Utd fan. You don't have a top class out and out Centre Forward though and very few teams are successful without one.

One could argue Liverpool buck the trend as Firmino plays a little deeper but they have two freaks in Mane & Salah & also have goals & assists all over the team (and a superior defence!)

Rashford and Martial had outscored the pair of them before Rashford got injured.