The north pole is melting

Caporegime
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Am i right in thinking that it isn't too much of a problem if the north pole melts as the whole lot has no landmass below anyway so is already floating? I.e. you fill a glass to near the brim then put an ice cube in and it is the brim, when that ice cube melts it stays at the brim.

Obviously it's bad for wildlife, but not us right?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8307272.stm

iirc because of the different densities in last and fresh water and their ices, when it melts it will add 2.6% more water than it displaces.

So there would be a small rise.
 
Caporegime
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Although this raises the interesting question, if we strip mined all the salt from salt flats and underground deposits and dumped it in around the north pole would we have enough to counter the fresh water? :p
 
Associate
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With the talk being about a marked drop in temperature if the pole melts, is there an estimated figure for this, are we talking 1-2 degrees or more like 5-10 degrees? Also would this be a seasonal variation in the temperature or a continuous all seasons drop?
 
Man of Honour
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Although this raises the interesting question, if we strip mined all the salt from salt flats and underground deposits and dumped it in around the north pole would we have enough to counter the fresh water? :p

Who knows but salt would become a priceless commodity. :p
 
Soldato
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So the scope of the report and the film may have defects. Does that automatically negate the real world situation that the polar ice caps are melting? No.

I do believe that the planet has a natural system for adjusting the CO, if that means wiping out higher forms of life then so be it. The threat of this happening is real however when and how is something science can't put a finger on and to a lesser extent drive policy that completely fixes the problem in one go.

Science is telling us that what has happened in the past is X based on parameters Y & Z however we don't know the exact set of parameters (we are missing some) and the planet changes state over time (ie sea currents change etc based on undersea landslides, tectonic shift etc).

So what we can do is look for the reasonable suggestions - CO2, ozone etc and place policy to fix those points. In the end the human race will cause changes and the planet will need to balance itself back to a stable state. It just so happens that we're changing it too quickly for a smooth balance so expect extreme changes.. don't need to be a brain surgeon to work that one out based on a globally closed system..
 
Associate
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Doesn't it displace slightly more? So if all the free floating ice melted then sea levels would fall slightly?
No, there is no truth to that, it only displaces and equal volume of water to its weight, so basically what sticks out of the water is the extra volume.

The real problem is every millimetre of water in the sea will expand a bit.

The desalination theory is just that, no one knows for sure it will happen or just how much desalination it would actually take.
 
Caporegime
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Melting the north pole will not raise sea levels.

salt water is more dense than fresh, dumping that much freshwater into lowers the salt level and so lowers the density by a small amount making the sea expand/rise by a small amount.

If they where both fresh water then yes it would be fine.
 
Soldato
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I thought that one reason sea levels would rise because all of the ice that is above surface would be melted and therefore add to the level. But I don't think that's right ;p
 
Soldato
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I thought that one reason sea levels would rise because all of the ice that is above surface would be melted and therefore add to the level. But I don't think that's right ;p

A large contributing factor to the sea levels rising is thermal expansion. As the water warms up, it expands. It's one of the main reason why our sea levels have rose 10-20cm in the last century,

If all glaciers around Antarctica and Greenland were to melt, the sea level would rise by about 50cm :)
 
Associate
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By itself it's not as serious a problem.. but it can cause things to get worse, faster.
Snow and ice are white. White is reflective. The polar ice cap effectively works as a giant reflector at present, without it there the sea will start to warm up faster.
Then, with the permanent sea ice replaced with warming water there's a risk that permanent land-locked ice in greenland could start to melt because you get an increase of precipitation.
 
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