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!!!! The OCUK Martial Arts Thread !!!!

Discussion in 'SA Archive' started by Richdog, 8 Oct 2005.

  1. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 24,929

    Location: Utopia

    Just seen a couple of people say they do MA in a few threads so thought i'd make this one.

    I've done about 8 months of Wing Chun and Chen style Tai-Chi before moving on to Jeet Kune Do (concepts) for the last 6 months which is a mix of Boxing, Muay Thai, grappling and Kali (Filipino stickfighting).

    I found Wing Chun a lot of fun and the principles were sound, I just didn't like the length of time it takes to get to the point where you can use it effectively, and even then I had my doubts about it as a complete and effective MA. Tai-Chi takes 10 years to get to the point where you can really use it effectively, but the health benefits are immediate, I just couldn't afford to keep it up. Long-term I know it's one of the most effective MA's out there though many people are under the illusion it's not a fighting art and just 'exercise'. You just need to find a good teacher who teaches it as a MA..

    With JKD I find that it covers almost every aspect of what I want to learn as well as being immediately appliable, and I have a great teacher who is heavily into the psychology aspect of fighting too, he's no thug, in fact to look at him you'd not think him 'hard' (same as with most dangerous people). Kali is amazing too, useful learning how to wield some weapons should the need (god forbid) ever arise.

    I enjoy it immensely, and my self-confidence has been given a nice boost from learning how to handle myself better, and through that i've also found that the average knobbos on a night out tend not to give me any grief because I carry myself better, I just look more confident. I highly reccommend taking up an MA to anyone looking for short and long-term health benefits.

    The reason i'm doing it is not to 'get hard' as I hate fighting (for real), I just decided last year that it was my duty to learn how to protect my future family should the need ever arise in an increasingly dangerous world. If me, my future missus and child are ever in danger I don't want to be one of the guys who stands there helpless while me or my loved ones are attacked.

    There's so many MA's I want to try too (mainly internal arts like Xing-Yi and Baji), there's just not enough time or money to spare.

    What martial arts do you do and why do you do them? Discuss them here, and no crapping the thread please with what you deem humorous jokes about made-up martial arts or Bruce lee etc etc, lets keep the discussion friendly and intelligent. :)

    EDIT - Apologies, didn't know there was a sports section, doh.
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2005
  2. Spit

    Soldato

    Joined: 8 Nov 2003

    Posts: 6,551

    Location: Yorkshire

    I got to Blue belt at Tae Kwon Do about 15 years ago and gave up. Then I did Karate and got a yellow belt before the club packed in. Then did Kick Boxing for a couple of years.

    Didnt do anything for 10 years apart from joining the TA for a couple of years.

    Then 5 months ago I joined Kung Fu because I was getting unfir.

    I am a yellow belt now and really enjoying it. I have never done any weapons training before now and thats the best bit just because its different. I go mainly for Richdogs reasons and thats keeping fit and confidence.

    Here is my club.... www.hullkungfu.co.uk
     
  3. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 24,929

    Location: Utopia

    Yeah, to be honest I personally don't really rate TKD or Karate as self-defence systems, but for flexibility and fitness they are good. It's just in a fight high kicks aren't the wisest idea or very practical unless you want a pounding (most of TKD's arsenal) and i'm not keen on Karate because it's so linear and blocking is done by meeting force with force, highly impractical compared to the Kung Fu styles of blocking which concentrate on deflecting energy. Makes you much more prone to injuring yourself.

    Does your Kung Fu club spar or is it non-contact? :)
     
  4. Spit

    Soldato

    Joined: 8 Nov 2003

    Posts: 6,551

    Location: Yorkshire

    Yes we spar but not till Orange belt.

    I totally agree about the TKD and Karate. Kung Fu teaches you techniques for real fighting.
     
  5. wozzizname

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 29 Jun 2004

    Posts: 2,208

    Location: Rainham, Kent

    I got to Shodan in Wado-Ryu karate, enjoyed the training but to progress further I was expected to help with the teaching of the lower grades - after a couple of years I got fed up as I was not progressing much myself. I haven't done anything for about 2 years now and I've put on quite a bit of weight, so should really try to take something up again, though at 41 yrs old I'm not too sure what would suit me now.

    btw not all Karate believes in hard blocking,we certainly didn't but then my instructor was also heavily involved in Tai Chi, and travelled to Hong Kong to train with a Yang family member a couple of times a year.
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2005
  6. FishFluff

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Nov 2003

    Posts: 5,344

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    Before I reply I'd also like to ask that people don't turn this into a "my martial art could pwn yours!!11" e-penis++ contest.

    I've been doing Atemi Jujitsu since April and I completely love it. For those that don't know, Jitsu is a Japanese martial art involving mainly throws and joint locks to break your opponents limbs. We also do a lot of BJJ style ground fighting. Think of it as a more vicious version of Judo and you're somewhere close. The "Atemi" part of the style of Jitsu I do roughly means that it involves a lot more striking than the more traditional styles of Jitsu, which in my opinion makes it an even more complete art. Pretty much most throws or locks we do are proceeded and followed by a strike. Obviously in a self defense situation these would be optional, as our Sensei points out :p

    We've also recently introduced Sports Jitsu at our club. Basically it's a bit like a heavily watered down MMA type thing. Two opponents start standing up with points awarded for strikes, throws and submissions. Both opponents wear gloves and kick boots and there are time limits imposed on how long you're allowed to spend clinched and on the ground. This is *a lot* of fun and you really start to learn which techniques work and which are merely for show when you start using them on an opponent who's actually trying to hit you in the face. After doing Sport Jitsu I don't think I could do a martial art which didn't involve at least some work on a resisting opponent or sparring.

    My future plans are to do another 6 months of Jitsu then add a bit of Muay Thai and if I can fit it in some BJJ. In a couple of years I'd like to be good enough to take part in some proper MMA competitions, but I'd seriously need to hit the gym first as I'm 6ft and only 11st!

    As Richdog said, any martial art is great fun and you do find that you do find that it makes you more confident on a night out. :)
     
  7. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 24,929

    Location: Utopia

    Heh some would say that is also very debateable, seeing as in previous fights Kung Fu has consistently been owned in K-1/Pride fights by Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai especially, and usually in a very short amount of time. And the old "but many moves are too deadly to use in a ring fight" doesn't wash either, it is just generally not taught to a competition standard as far as heavy training and learning how to take serious punishment goes. The average Kung Fu fighter just isn't conditioned in the way that ring fighters are, and that's why they lose. I hear that things are changing though, and some Kung Fu teachers are now training students to the high ring standard specifically to go back and compete against Muay Thai and grapplers.

    However, I agree that if taught well it can be a very effective method of self-defence, it just takes longer to get there. The worst thing about Wing Chun is that ground-fighting is generally not taught and it's not very open to new principles, it's quite rigid in the way it's taught.

    Notable though are guys like Dan Docherty, Wu style Tai-Chi guy who won the full-contact Kung Fu Kung Fu championships a few years in a row in the 80's, and also a guy called James Sinclair, head of the UK Wing Chun Association who used to regularly hold private underground fights against other styles.

    In my opinion though an MA isn't taught effectively as a self-defence unless you throw in copious amounts of contact sparring, many MA's that don't give you false confidence in your abilities, and when it comes to the crunch they generally get thei bum handed to them on a plate. :)

    EDIT - Fishfluff, i'd also love to do Sport Jiu-Jitsu or Judo, they are damn great grappling arts that emphasise "getting in there" so to speak. There's none local to me though. :(
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2005
  8. atpbx

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 21,452

    I love fighting, have not done any training of any kind for nearly a year as my foot although fine to play football with, wont take the twisting and jumping of martial arts training.
    I miss the sparing, especially with people from other "styles" who have either come with mates to have a look or to strut their stuff. Its a shame really ive been a purple sash for god knows how many years, and just cant put the time in to make the final pushes to brown and black, i know the set for the brown grading but not to a grading standard, and im rusty as hell in the general "got the moves" department.
    I used to love suckering newbies when i sparred, id lumber about cause in quite chunky, and then when they started growing in confidence, and them blitz them with the full quota of flash.
    ;)
    knothing better than dropping someone on their arse. even if they are new.
     
  9. Trojan

    Soldato

    Joined: 19 Sep 2003

    Posts: 5,319

    Location: Adelaide, Australia

    You big wuss, get entering the comps as soon as ;)
     
  10. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 24,929

    Location: Utopia

    What MA did you do? lol.
     
  11. FishFluff

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Nov 2003

    Posts: 5,344

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    Well I'm entering a regional groundfighting tournament in a fortnight which is a start I suppose. Then in November there's the BMA Groundfighting Nationals which I might enter depending how I do at this regional one. As for MMA competitions how would one go about finding ones where I'm not going to be facing some 15st semi pro who's been training 10 years and will whip my arse?

    Edit: Doh, just realised who I was replying to :p
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2005
  12. atpbx

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 21,452

    Kung Fu and kickboxing.
    Do you not do any jumping kicks where you go? Jumping spinning kicks 4TW!
    You've got:
    Turning
    side
    back
    front
    sickle
    spinning
    and crescent kicks on the ground, with jumping variations of each ( bar sickle and crescent)

    Superb!
    back fist off your lead hand, reverse punch, ridge hand, drop into opposite stance, left turning kick, jumping spinning kick.
    Newbie suitably impressed.
     
  13. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

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    Location: Utopia

    Nah Wing Chun has very few kicks, and they are all waist height and below. JKD uses Muay Thai kicks, so no fancy spinny jumpy ones there. :)
     
  14. Chris [BEANS]

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 6,397

    Location: Bigger box!

    Wing Chun practitioner here. I'm loving every minute of it. I think it's an awsomely powerful and direct martial art, i do agree with those who say there isn't enough sparring and in a propper competition fight thats where the art falls down.
    However, in a defence situation for example the pub or the street the explosive speed power and direct practicality of the art is second to none. If somebody gets in your face for the wrong reasons as long as you are confident and agressive enough you will have little difficulty dropping them. It's fast, agressive and one move flows to the next and therefore if you dont drop em with your first strike then the second and the third and the fourth strike will all flow from each other in the time most people will atke to wind up for their first strike.
    If you haven't dropped them by your fith strike then you are either rubbish or fighting somebody way out of your league and you should run!!!
     
  15. FishFluff

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Nov 2003

    Posts: 5,344

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    That's one thing I will give Kung Fu, it's strikes are very, very fast which makes them tricky to block.
     
  16. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 24,929

    Location: Utopia

    Problem with WC punches (vertical) is that while they're fast, they're not the most powerful unless you're an advanced practitioner with forearms of steel. Very weak compared to a boxing punch, though better for your hand.

    In any case, my primary strike for people who scare me in the usual situation (drunk nutter outside nightclub) would be my elbow/forearm. Providing I hit I can cram so much power into it that it's either a knockout or severe facial damage. I'd do a wallop with that then run like the wind. :D
     
  17. Nana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Nov 2002

    Posts: 1,342

    I studied wing chun .. under a close student of grandmaster Jim Fung from australia, every day, for about 2 years.

    Sparring, me and my brother in law used to fight for 60 minutes a day on my lawn, he'd kick me all to hell and back for about the first year, doing an exercise called chi sau. Pain is simply fear leaving your body. First time I hit him hard enough to break open his lip, he knocked me out. Unfortunately he's gone now. But I still do my first form as often as I remember to, and I still go 15 minutes on the punchbag when I feel stressed. The amount of sparring we did meant that when we went to the local club we paid for 120 minutes of whoop ass, and beat the crap out of nearly everyone there nearly every week. Before having a few pints with them all, all jolly friendly. we even got to doing 10 minute sessions of chi sau blindfolded to improve arm sensitivity and placement, he broke my jaw during the second session.

    All it's taught me, is there are some goddamn hard maniacs out there. who you'd never mess with.. so avoid any confrontation like the plague. And if you ever do get involved in a serious altercation, it'll make you sick inside for months, hurting people ain't no good at all. Like if someone starts on me now, I cannot help but to try and thumbstrike his eye, try to take his eye out. It's a trained response.
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2005
  18. Chris [BEANS]

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 6,397

    Location: Bigger box!

    Thats not realy true. Yes they are weaker than a big wind up hook or even a straight but you realy dont have to be an advanced practitioner to learn the techniques that can make them very powerful indeed.
    I am only at yellow sash level right now and i'm pretty confident in my punching power.
     
  19. Nana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Nov 2002

    Posts: 1,342

    I dont really know about sash levels or any of that stuff.... grading is very hard with wc, you either feel the relaxed body structure or you don't. And as soon as you do, it's like opening a door for your mind. I've seen an 80 year old guy effortlessly chucking assailants about because he is so relaxed.


    Anyone in the UK heard of Samuel Kwok wing chun?
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2005
  20. Richdog

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 24,929

    Location: Utopia

    Wall bags help condition the fists, and doing the punching sets helps improve power and speed a lot, but the boxing punch is more effective in an average situation I feel, having tried both. Just my opinion.

    The other thing I didn't like about WC was the footwork... I much prefer boxing footwork, more mobile and easier to generate punching power. :)